Dar Narbugud - Discussion

[Rhyaehar]

Use this topic to discuss tactics for DN. It's more useful to do it here then it is on every other raid signup topic.

[Rhyaehar]

With 60 radiance I was cowering just a few meters from it, and had to use hope to avoid that during the mob-clearing.
I would certainly advise people to take a stack of 15m hope tokens with them. Negating the dread while clearing trash is very useful, as it gives you more damage, more morale, less resists and less incoming damage.

[Gorli]

The Gloom in the first room is 110. that means that if you have 60 radiance you get 5 dread and will cover (If not minstrel uses tale of warding wich gives one hope). If you have 65 radiance you only get 4 dread.

[Gorli]

I've noticed the last runs we have done in there that all goes well with the troll until last phase. When one troll goes under 120 and we start smacking it to get it down(actually the other one) people start dropping. Yesterday one troll ran and oneshot people.

The other thing is that we dont get the troll down fast enough. The troll alive shouldnt get more than 3- max 4 buffs. Last runs it have been between 7-9 buffs on him. The buffs stack around every 30s. This could be because people is dropping.

2 captains is good so we have 1 oathbreaker at 120k and one at 80k. LS+IHW at 50K and burnout on hunters and we should get one down fast.

When we have one down we can slowly take down the last one. Yesterday was good all until Tank died, then minstrels died.

Hoping for a good kill of the trollls on sunday !

[Raedwulf]

Various points to make...

1) What happens with the trash is pretty irrelevant. We know about not rooting the trolls, the big guard does an AoE stun. Beyond that, they are trash, there shouldn't be any issue with taking them down, really, and no-one should die.

2) The tactic we are working on now is to have one tank take both Twins. Any suggestions should bear that in mind. We need to give the tank time to build up a head of steam, so auto attacks & debuffs only from the dps classes, until the leader says otherwise.

3) The twins should be tanked facing away from the group, as much as possible. The acid pools are a 180 degree frontal arc attack. If you're behind, you should be safe. Caveat - it's possible the trolls may turn if there are not enough targets - keep an eye out for this.

4) One troll has weaker mitigations than the other (I can't remember which is which) - we should be killing it first. The critical part of the fight is phase 2 - killing one before the other builds up too many buffs.

5) As soon phase 2 starts, an Oathbreakers should go (if there are multiple captains, decide the running order between yourselves), and all hunters should use Heartseekers, Merciful Shot, etc, as soon as possible, and as often as possible for the remainder of the fight (there ought to be several more chances for MS, and at least one more Hs before both are dead).

6) If you know what you're supposed to be doing e.g. the Heartseekers, then do it. Don't wait for the RL to give you the go ahead - he's got a lot of other things to watch out for.

7) Don't forget to buy DP hope before the last fight starts, even if the RL forgets to tell you! ;)

That'll do for now...

[Rhyaehar]

1) What happens with the trash is pretty irrelevant. We know about not rooting the trolls, the big guard does an AoE stun. Beyond that, they are trash, there shouldn't be any issue with taking them down, really, and no-one should die.
Yes, don't root the trolls. Don't Mezz/Daze them either. Fears work though. Trolls have an induction that, if not interrupted, will place a poison DOT on all in a 180 degree radius in front on them. The Guards have their healing mushrooms, champs should just spam AOE to deal with that. Clobbering them is important, given the stuns.

2) The tactic we are working on now is to have one tank take both Twins. Any suggestions should bear that in mind. We need to give the tank time to build up a head of steam, so auto attacks & debuffs only from the dps classes, until the leader says otherwise.
One tank on both works, but is a bit challenging. Time to get aggro is essential. I've done this twice now, but it's no easy feat. I'm probably slightly gimped by my lack of forced taunts and engage, but it can be done. It's best to give the tank some 15-30 seconds without any attacks (debuffs only, no auto attacks), then slowly build it up. As you're well aware, you're in no rush until you actually get one troll below 120k.

3) The twins should be tanked facing away from the group, as much as possible. The acid pools are a 180 degree frontal arc attack. If you're behind, you should be safe. Caveat - it's possible the trolls may turn if there are not enough targets - keep an eye out for this.
Yup, they do turn to do so. I suggest the tank to not run straight into a corner with them. Try to stay in the middle of the room. When acid pools are thrown right behind them, gimping the melee classes, the tank should move the two away from the pools, enough for the melees to continue their attacks without getting at their fronts.

4) One troll has weaker mitigations than the other (I can't remember which is which) - we should be killing it first. The critical part of the fight is phase 2 - killing one before the other builds up too many buffs.
Interesting, I haven't heard that before. Kudos for that observation. What I find works best is getting them both down to 160k. Have the tank stay on the one you want to die, get the DPS going on the one to stay alive last. I would recommend killing the one with the higher mitigations first though. The buildup of buffs is a race, but the mushrooms are a bigger race. You'll run out of cavern space. When the one to die first is at 15k, ball everyone up in a corner, including tank and trolls.

5) As soon phase 2 starts, an Oathbreakers should go (if there are multiple captains, decide the running order between yourselves), and all hunters should use Heartseekers, Merciful Shot, etc, as soon as possible, and as often as possible for the remainder of the fight (there ought to be several more chances for MS, and at least one more Hs before both are dead).
Given the cooldown on Oathbreakers, you should be able to use it multiple times. Get it on the first troll as soon as the debuffs start and the cooldown should be gone by the time phase 3 comes along or is going on. For the tank, it's vitally important to ensure that, when the mushrooms drop, he/she runs just out of the cloud, positioning the troll on it's very edge. Melee damage should be possible without getting in acid, but one step too far should get you acid. Try to keep the movement as close to the wall as possible, to maximize space in the cavern.

[Gorli]

Given the cooldown on Oathbreakers, you should be able to use it multiple times. Get it on the first troll as soon as the debuffs start and the cooldown should be gone by the time phase 3 comes along or is going on. For the tank, it's vitally important to ensure that, when the mushrooms drop, he/she runs just out of the cloud, positioning the troll on it's very edge. Melee damage should be possible without getting in acid, but one step too far should get you acid. Try to keep the movement as close to the wall as possible, to maximize space in the cavern.


ATM I think we are working on only having the tank inside the cloud with all healing classes spamming heals and all range classes do dps from outside the cload, Having the boss standing still. To move around requires excelent position awareness from everyone, and It seems the hard way.

[Rhyaehar]

No, it's actually easier to move everyone out of the cloud. These clouds are intended to kill, and they are Working As Intended. Just on the very edge works. Trust me. Not only will it give you less healing worries, you'll also have more DPS, since all melees can join in too.

[Notiane]

4) One troll has weaker mitigations than the other (I can't remember which is which) - we should be killing it first. The critical part of the fight is phase 2 - killing one before the other builds up too many buffs.

Knowledge of the Loremaster still seems to have a few bugs, I got screenshots of both Rung and Blagh having the same mitigations, Blagh being the weaker one and Rung being the weaker. All those have been before the fight (i.e. no debuffs etc.) One thing is clear, Fire and Light damage are best to use (they are consistantly amongst the lowest mitigations) and AD or Beleriand the next best choices.

Another thing for loremasters, I think we should go for one fully traited AM, with a 2nd (and 3rd etc.) traiting for max dps.

[Raedwulf]

Yah, you said that before, Noti. I'm not disputing your experience, but! I've cast KotL repeatedly, and always had the same results for these two. Therefore I'm going to presume I'm right. At the very least, I can cast it every time & see A) whether I still get the same; & B) go after the weaker / stronger according to what I get each time. Speaking of which, can anyone remember what I did last time? I've actually forgotten whether we tried to kill the weaker one first or second...

[Raedwulf]

Rhy,

1) Yeah we know about the stuns too.

2) Well, what do you expect, you plastic tank?! :P

3) I want everyone to keep an eye out for this next time. See if you can figure out exactly how they're behaving.

4) I'll post my screenies of KotL when I have the other box fired up. Noti is right though - Fire / Light are their real weaknesses.

[Raedwulf]

KotL on Blagh & Rung...

[Haleabor]

Right...this post is not meant to be a dig at the DN leaders...it's an observation to help us through this.

I honestly feel that our tactics for phases 1 and 2 are sound, invariably no-one (of very few) people die. We do need to consider how we are able to maximise dps on the trolls.

Here I have an idea for the begning of phase 2....the Minstrels cast "call to greatness" on themselves and then fire off Fellowships Heart....then move quickly into warspeach and dps while the FH is going on. Major drawback to this is that after they finish they will have zero power...so we need to think about how we can cover this.

Anyway...that was not really the point of my post...I was going to talk about phase 2-3 transition and phase 3.

I think the problem here is that (although we've talked about it) we have not clearly and precisely said...do this...stand here...don't do this. An example of this is that when the 1st troll dies we currently have no positional instruction, so melee and others get caught in the first mushroom...minstrels have lots of people to heal and subsequently are not healing the Tank....who goes down. Also...much running around...gets you killed :)

It IS a difficult raid to lead and to discuss positioning as you cannot "trial run" the area like you can in some raids.

Anyway...that's just my observation...don't take it as a critisism. I want them dead, that's all

Hal

[Tiermond]

Ideally I would have thought Call to Greatness should be done on champs at the start of the fight to give them an early defeat response and get Red Haze up, this is very much a dps race and otherwise champs wont get a defeat response until after the first troll dies.

[Raedwulf]

Given a base CD of 5m, there's no reason why it can't be done according to both suggestions. Apart from that, just how precise a set of instructions does anyone think they need? You know to get away from the last twin by now, surely? And the randomness of acid pools & what-not make precision a tad difficult! ;)

[Haleabor]

CTG has a 5 min cooldown so it may be possbile to do both...good point though :)

[Grimbos]

wasn't there one that opens a defeat response for the whole FS? Song of Aid or something?

[Haleabor]

Yup

It opens Gated skills such as Red Haze

Hal

[bothorn]

Suppose i'll inject my 2cents, theres a few ways to do this and altho im only used to one method im sure you can make adjustments and fill in the gaps as you see fit, basically you know you get killer shroom clouds after one troll drops well your better off in my honest opinion to try and kill them both within as little time as possible, what im saying is sort out your dps evenly as you can and take them both down equally (if one starts to fall faster then compensate by hitting the opposite mob as ya do) the whole way untill perhaps the last 10-15k before nuking one, reallly the less time you spend on that last extremely annoyed troll with his gas of death the better. So long as ye got your LM debuffs and the burg is disabling both then you should manage tho it does require the trolls to be
"tanked" by seperate people, best of luck.

[Rhyaehar]

Meh, you don't need to have 2 tanks for them. One can do.

[bothorn]

Well yea depends on the tank I suppose but for that last part when there both buffed it can take strain off the healers as they hit hard, Like I said theres no one way to do it and i heard that rru was tryin it with one tank on both so I figured i'd suggest sumthin else.

[Gorli]

I dont think we have the firepower to take both down same time. It takes too long time. That would mean that the buffs would both be up to 10-15 x 20% melee damage for each troll and on the random "run away and hit someone" that means a one-shot kill + it would be very hard for healers.

I still beleive that haveing one tank on trolls and focus on positioning on the last part is the way to go.

[bothorn]

Short on fire power hmm, well if ye have 2 hunters a champ and an RK *oh and a burg* in there then that shouldnt be a problem but again depends on players and gear, should make sure your hnt and chmp have atleast 2nd age weapons, tis not hard to get now what with crafted ones ect and the difference is worth it.

[Raedwulf]

Success! RRU have finally taken the Twins down for the first time, using the kill one, then the other tactic. Many thanks to Rhy for coming along and & helping to prove that it does work. For those interested, we managed to kill the last one despite numerous deaths. In fact, I think we had to take him down from at least 35K with only half the raid still on their feet (2 minstrels & me were part of that surviving group, fortunately).

Last night proved two things to me. First, the reason we haven't been succeeding is because our tanks & melee types have not quite got the hang of moving the last one around the edge of the cavern whilst keeping out of the poison clouds. Not a criticism of any of them, by the way, but hopefully now Hirion, Aik, & Therrald have a better idea of what is required (Therrald managed to stay alive throughout, I believe), and can pass this on.

Second, I'm going to have to start being biased against people with the least radiance when picking those on the run. Villieth died a number of times. Undoubtedly part of that was due to it being his first time in, but only having the bare minimum 55 Rad wouldn't have helped. By contrast, Rhy with 100 rad seemed relatively trouble free. Again, undoubtedly the fact that he's succeeded there before is the significant factor, but having more hp, a higher skill level, taking less damage, all because of the dread level, definitely helps.

So sorry all, but there is the Radiation thread up - you can see who needs what, if you go through it. Check the calendar, check the raid & instance forums, & get organising! DD is hard, but there's no excuse for not picking up the other 5 pieces of +10; you can get an extra +15 from the three new pieces. Even if Filikul & VM don't give you much of a chance at picking up the +20 shoulders & helm, there's no reason why you can't make it to 65 Rad. If you don't & others have... That's going to mean that much less chance of you being in future DN raids.

[Hirion]

Not a criticism of any of them, by the way, but hopefully now Hirion, Aik, & Therrald have a better idea of what is required (Therrald managed to stay alive throughout, I believe), and can pass this on.
For you information I died because I sacrificed myself for the greater good of the raid.

At that time I was the only melee attacking the remaining troll besides Rhyaewald, constantly just on the border of the cloud. However several people were dying from the cloud, and most importantly Rhyaewald was from tanking the troll, and I went In Harms Way to save all your pretty behinds. I called this out in both chat and voice, and did the same when my Last Stand was running out leaving me at less than 400 morale. So don't you make my noble sacrifice about not managing to stay alive. I laid my life on the altar for you lot (and got well rewarded for it too!). :lol:

On a different note I think you ended up being 3 minstrels, and as much as this is a DPS-race I have been thinking that having three minstrels at that point may have played a significant part in healing Rhyaewald through the 6 or so buffs of the remaining troll.

[Aikanaron]

I now know what the best way is in getting in DPS range with the trolls.
It seems the only have the clouds behind them, so if you move backwards as soon he drops a mushroom, you're ok. Once you're out do some DPS and over again. Much the same as in the forges with the fire I think actually. I died because I stayed to long on the side of the troll where I should been in front of him.

Glad to see the twins down and looking forward to the other bosses in there.

[Hirion]

It seems the only have the clouds behind them
I think this is fully due to the tank placing it that way.

[Aikanaron]

I think this is fully due to the tank placing it that way.

True, but I can remember in some previous raids there where mushrooms all over the place. The way Rhy did it was so that I can stay in there with the tank, though still needed some practice yesterday. ;)

[Hirion]

True, but I can remember in some previous raids there where mushrooms all over the place.
Yes, though I think it hasnt necessarily been because other tanks have not know, but simply that have died (or DCed) and the tank being gone, the troll will run all over the place and we have one big mushroom field.

I guess that if the tank is missing, and untill another gets a firm hold on him, the rest of the group should be carefull not to be too spread out, to try to avoid that.

[Gorli]

The troll put down the muchroom with some time in between. I tank these with another group and we have most melee. What we do with I move troll out of the cloud. The melee go in and hit for 5 sec then run back out backwards, So only tank is in the cloud when next mushroom gets down. Then we repeat. Work pretty good.

[Raedwulf]

Hirion, I know why you died, you moaning git. Just because you're a RL now doesn't mean you're allowed to turn into Rhy! :P ;) The point I'm making is that before we knew what we were supposed to be doing, but hadn't made it work, and didn't know what it looked like when it did work. Now we have 3 heavies who do know. Therefore, when we're trying it next time with a different tank, there's that much more experience to help the tank get it right.

As to the minstrels, I don't know how much healing Dell was doing before I explicitly told him to concentrate on it. I do know that Vilieth died 2 or 3 times, hence my remarks above; and that he died fairly early in the Phase 3, hence me telling Dell to heal. So no, I don't think a 3rd minstrel made much difference one way or the other.

Aik - yes, that's correct & is exactly what Rhy was trying to tell everyone at the the time. And yes, having been tanking Krankluk this week on both Eik & Raed, I think that's a very apt comparison too. Hopefully that'll make sense for some of our tanks & give them a better idea of how to go about things.

DEATH TO THE TWINS!! (On a regular basis, thank you very much)

[Rhyaehar]

Just move the twins into a corner of the cave when one of them reaches 15k. As soon as he dies, start moving, as a mushroom cloud drops. The tank hugs the wall until he is just out the cloud, then the melees come in next to the tank. At the next cloud, all move back. Do not move sideways, that's not efficient enough. Should acid pools be dropped on you, simply move to the side slightly to avoid the pool.

[Dellannan]

As to the minstrels, I don't know how much healing Dell was doing before I explicitly told him to concentrate on it. I do know that Vilieth died 2 or 3 times, hence my remarks above; and that he died fairly early in the Phase 3, hence me telling Dell to heal. So no, I don't think a 3rd minstrel made much difference one way or the other.

I dropped ws when villieth died the first time to be able to heal. After that I was dps'ing as much as I could without ws on, and I regularly threw in a heal every now and then. When 3rd phase began I was more or less only healing, and I was only healing when you told me to.

It was very good to finally manage to down those twins, and see what was behind that door! Looking forward to the runs ahead of us :)

[Derigar/Tarinas]

I remember needing a lot of power from Ang in the last part because i was taking no chances and just healing Rhy non-stop, regardless of his morale level. Only exception was when i saw the acid pool animation, as i was a target and at 2500 a tick, i had to be moving when they fell so as to only get one hit.

All in all it was about Rhy moving him to the corner at about 15k as he said, clearing melee classes out at this point, then just running backwards out of the acid cloud each time he drops his lunch and keeping an eye out for acid pools.

I agree more radiance would help everyone though, was kind of hoping the new barter system would be in place soon, but since that was a book 9 proposed change, which is now an SoM book, we're still screwed on DD coins.

[Villieth]

Right at the start, with the trash mobs, I saw you all loosing to much morale, and I use Triumphant Spirit. Thanks to that I was the main tank for a while and they were all on me. Well at least I healed you all :D
During the boss fight I died right in the beginning because I managed to leave my acid pool, but when I notice, I was on somebody else's pool and it was too late.
The second time, the troll attack me (or was it aoe!?) and I got back a little, but was to close to the mushroom and again it was to late to run away...

Some noob mistakes, but it was my first time in DN, and I'm sorry for it. I do hope to get better next time.

[Raedwulf]

As I said, Vill, I think inexperience had more to do with it than anything else. Nevertheless, if you're 5, 10, 15% worse off in terms of damaage taken & all the rest of it, you're simply not as effective. It's a crap mechanism, I wish Turbine didn't gate content that way. But they do. So the point about radiance still stands.

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Under direct orders from mighty Squee, who has far more important things to do than write here (muffins were involved), heres what we found out about our Orc friend Flagit tonight.

This guy has learned a few lessons from Thorog back in his prime - he utilises a potent heal and an eyeball of death that is just as nasty as his predecessor. Firstly the eye. No screenshot just yet, but its fairly clear when you have it; both a large green eye above your head and a small white eye on your debuff bar can be seen. To clear this, you run inbetween the two rock outcrops (note if you're tanking the boss and he passes this, the fight resets), so it makes sense to keep all ranged characters close by.this invisible line. However, if you get the eye when you're already past this line, no amount of running away or hiding will save you (possibly running in and out will work though). If you fail to clear this, you and pretty much everyone within 5 metres of you will get hit for 3000-4000 damage, often a one hit kill unless at full morale.

Now for the heal. For the first half of the fight this appears roughly once a minute (varies slightly at this point, expecially with FSMs interrupting scripts). He'll give an audio cue and then glows red for a few seconds before using this. When in use, he has green swirly things around him, is immune to damage and heals 1% morale for every hit he receives (i.e. 5000 morale per hit). Either stop attacking him for the fifteen second duration of this attack or use a named FM to remove this early.

This pattern continues until he hit half morale, at which point in becomes controlled DPS race. The eye remains the same, but his vigour buff changes from once a minute with a fifteen second duration, to once every half-minute with a five second duration. The factor that makes this a race is his melee DPS increases by 25% for every vigor buff performed (i.e. once every 30 seconds, possibly not if interrupted though, still needs checking). He also swaps from +20% incoming ranged damage to +20% incoming melee damage. Probably the best way to handle this is to DPS like mad for 20-25 seconds, then stop altogether, wait for the RL to give the all clear that vigor has gone, then resume the DPS frenzy. The part that draws this fight out is the vigor healing, remove this as a factor in the second half of the fight and it will end much quicker.

Think he was stacking some healing penaltlies and other factors too, no idea what caused these but if the rest of the fight goes as planned, they aren't too troublesome.

[Raedwulf]

There was some commentary after-raid about the way the acid pools work (which is to be encouraged - after the raid, or when we're standing around waiting for dread to wear off are good times for discussion!). Up to now, we have assumed that the pool targetting is largely aggro-based, but this seems not to be the case.

In last night's raid, I included a specific tweak to tactics, asking the Champions (we had 3) to specifically watch out for the Minstrels and use their Ire skills to steal aggro (and dump it on the Guardian if possible) if the Minstrels became regular targets for the pools. It didn't work. According to Ontaremakil, he was doing this throughout, and it made no difference to the amount that Kuni was being targetted.

Since this is a fight we know well & have beaten twice, I felt at liberty to have a quick browse to see if I could find out anything further. The only reference I found was a claim that it's entirely random. Well, we know it isn't, because the Twins tend to target the same people; not alwys but mostly.

So the targetting is still an unknown, but we know it isn't aggro based. Next suspect is how early you run into the room...

[Derigar/Tarinas]

I suspected early on that it was based on an aggro list that was generated within a few seconds of the fight starting, as the last few runs if i didn't heal much at the start, kept behind the trolls and used song of soothing on both when i had the chance, i was pretty much never a pool target until others started collapsing.

[Tiermond]

So the targetting is still an unknown, but we know it isn't aggro based. Next suspect is how early you run into the room...

Since you can get pools from one troll and not the other and also I've run into the room right behind the tank so as to start debuffing asap and I've not become a pool target so I think we can forget that theory.

[Raedwulf]

I have run into the room debuffing immediately and done nothing else; no damage, just debuffs; and become a target for both trolls. So no, I don't we can discard that theory yet. Or, to be more precise, I don't think we can discard the theory that keeping induction classes inactive near the door at the start may save them becoming targets. Which is what I was thinking of...

[Villieth]

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/6476/screenshot00561.th.jpg (http://img44.imageshack.us/i/screenshot00561.jpg/)

Here is the red eye.

[Rhyaehar]

The red and green eye. The green one is hard to take a picture of.

The Acidic Cloud is the aura surrounding him. Virulent Contagion is the green eye, Paralyzing Contagion the red eye.

http://tweakers.net/ext/f/XWifBBDzG12k3v6J50mhoucZ/full.gif

[Degorond]

ok i sucked up some information about The Blind one:

[Raedwulf]Which I've deleted - do NOT post spoiler information without using spoiler tags! Do you think I'm incapable of doing research, if that's what RRU wants to do? :x

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Degorond, for future reference (as has been emphasised in just about every single DN run so far), we are not looking up tactics for any of the fights, prefering to work things out for ourselves. This discussion thread is for reflecting on observations and suggestions based on the content we have seen in this RRu raid, and this raid alone. We ask that you please respect this approach in the future.

[Degorond]

ahh and i was hoping to save some repair bills but no! :P j/k

Looks like i misunderstood it and it will not happen again!

[Raedwulf]

No worries. :)

[Tiermond]

Those contagion's look like they will be a major pain. It will take everyone to be watching for when they get it and get clear of everyone else fast if they do.
Hopefully the range that it spreads isn't too great but the 4s root makes it more problematic. Hopefully those without the DN boots have the epic boots with the -4 root in their vaults but then they need another 10 radiance from somewhere else.
I can see us failing on this quite a lot until we have everyone in the group to a reasonable level of equipment to kill this boss.

[Notiane]

On the plus side, if we can get the trolls down regularly, we got three rather easy farms after that. That should bring a total of four radiance to our raid each week.

[Rhyaehar]

Well, given the contagion spreads fairly quick (I believe it's 5-8 seconds before firing), you'll have to think of a way to stop it spreading. I'm sure you know the easiest way. There's only a tricky part with those in melee range. That often goes bad. I'll be happy to provide advice on that one, when asked.

One tiny spoiler, for after the fight. This holds no tactics or information on how to kill him.
Should you manage to kill him, you have about 5 seconds to get off the webbing. That opens, causing you to fall down. While needed to proceed to the next boss, if your entire raid is standing on it, you won't be able to loot the chest, which would suck.

[Haleabor]

Re the spoiler....ROFL :) :)

[Raedwulf]

Spoilsport! :P But it would suck, yes... :)

[Degorond]

This is spoilersport:
HAHa Gotcha! :P


On topic:
How come the twins are harder then the 3 next one? It dosent make sense.
Also, how does locks work in DN? Is it same as turtle/watcher?

[Rhyaehar]

Locks in DN reset every thursday morning at 7 AM or something.

The Twins are harder, just like Barz/Zurm were considerably harder than following bosses up to Thrang. It makes for a nice entry.

[Dellannan]

My thoughts after the blind run at the blind one is:
- There is an area cloud around the boss, obviously, I am not sure how big it is, but on our last attempt I got it when I walked on the web, and it was removed when i walked back on safe ground again.
- The eyes are nasty, and I think we should try to stand as far away from each other as possible so that it does not jump over to more people when it ends its duration.
I was able to walk all around the boss without starting the fight, so we should be able to spread out before the combat starts. I think it starts when we step on the web for the first time.
I am not sure how the first person gets the eyes, if it is randomly assigned at a given time, or if we trigger it somehow. Needs to do more testing to figure that out..

Did anyone notice when (or why) the darklings spawned, and what they did? If they do as before, they will go to the boss and heal him up for a considerable amount of morale. Anyway I we need to kill them asap i guess.

Did anyone notice if the boss got other buffs on him? Or was there any corruption? Or did all of you go as me, totally confused in panic mode, doing the first random thing that popped up in my mind :)

I guess it also can help not to have killed two bosses before we go to this one, as its surely a hard fight. So we can be clear and stay focused during the fight. Also more radiance items will surely help us a lot in this fight.

But it was a great fun, and I had a blast giving it a try for the first time there :)

[Raedwulf]

Or did all of you go as me, totally confused in panic mode, doing the first random thing that popped up in my mind :)


Your beloathed Raid Leader stood still the second time & watched (mostly trying to get a screen shot of those poxy eyes!), don't worry. I have a few ideas for next time, the main ones being 1) clear the first 4 bosses on Thursday before attempting a clean run on the Friday with full resses; 2) Accept that the first couple of Friday tries are going to be entirely experimental wipes & do not use in-combat resses, so that once we've tried a few things out, we can make a real attempt with a full set of everything & no hanging around for cooldowns.

Stock up on money, folks. Repairs on Mr. BO are going to be pricey... ;)

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Might help to highlight each buff, press h (default key) to keep it on screen, then take the screenshot when its more convienient.

[Hirion]

The very-insanly-fast-building-corruption of the Blind One (past 200k)
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m155/ulisterius/ScreenShot00394.jpg
Alright for some reason I managed getting a tooltip partly over the buff as I screenshot it (doing the 'h' trick as suggested above - nifty stuff).

Was really fun doing trial and error on this last night - especially with the feeling of immediate payback in the form of progress. And being the focus of everyone's spam-healing in the end when those bufs came up, and Daphne went down, was thrilling.

As for tomorrow - I'm looking forward to hopefully do a bit of tanking again, yay, but thought we might want to discuss thoughts and ideas a bit.

He did not seem to wipe threat once the Darklings got in the mix, so we might only want one tank at that point - perhaps reducing the needed healing a bit and leaving one more person to step in on killing Darklings/Blind One's Shadow thingies.

However if only one person is tanking the Blind One past the threat wipes, then it is probably a good idea not to kill the Darklings as they appear (neither by the tank or the ranged chaps), as a Darkling vortext catching the one tank might set the Blind One free to stir up trouble elsewhere. Also, did we get no eyes in that part of the fight? In terms of the tank leaving the center, needing a spot to step into.

Also if going with the exact same setup, I would suggest I stay on the Blind One and Daphne picks up Shadows - as I think I'm better at holding on to something than grabbing it fast. I only wish I was a warden, as I think they are, when it comes to tanks, the ones quickest at using corruption removals (short 'cooldown'). Knowing what we face we might also be better at timing the removal cycle - and considering how fast they build we might want to keep the removal primed for when we get most out of them (that is when he has 4 or more of them). Will put extra strain on the tank healing, but from yesterday it seemed like we did good at first but then we suddenly got a lot from a removal missing/being resisted. I'm thinking that if we get the max number of corruptions removed with each use of a removal skill, then the lapse untill cooldown is over should be shorter. If we're the same I reckon that the removal from the 3 lore-masters and the burglar can all take 3 or so per use, right? And whoever tanks him can probably remove a single corruption every so often as cooldown is done.

Finally I'm also thinking we should, as suggested by Angrenel before we disbanded last night, try to see if those on the outer rim could bunch up as we get to 200k and those shadows were released - to ease group heals, power sharing etc.

My thoughts for now - can't wait till tomorrow and get back in there!:P

[Tiermond]

That was great fun last night and we made some nice progress against the Blind One. I felt like a bit useless against the Blind One, standing at the edge putting reveal weakness on him and hitting the occasional darkling that came my way.
That said if I run into melee to put debuffs on or start a fm and run out of range I take about 4k damage in the space of a few seconds. Just about doable as long as the minstrels are forewarned I would think. With a 1 min duration on debuffs it shouldn't add too much to the strain on the healers and could actually reduce the strain with some green fm's.
Phase 2 was very easy, could try doing it with 1 tank, but if that tank gets hit by a darkling he will disappear for 10secs and the Blind One could go for a minstrel unless there is a second tank ready to grab agro.
The final phase when the shadows start appearing seems fun. I would think there are 2 approaches. Stun, root and fear to keep the shadows out of the way and just go dps crazy on the Blind One. The other approach would be to slowly kill the Blind One killing the copies as they appear. I really think at this stage the burglar should be in melee with the Blind One debuffing and dpsing as much as he can. Whichever approach is taken corruption removal will be key to success.

[Hirion]

I really think at this stage the burglar should be in melee with the Blind One debuffing and dpsing as much as he can. Whichever approach is taken corruption removal will be key to success.
And removing too - your corruption removal might be slow, but it takes a bunch of it.

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Ok, think these are the important pictures i got last night.

Firstly - phase 1 with the kicking aggro wipes, brilliantly handelled by our two designated tanks of the evening. If everyone does what they can to keep threat down (of important note is the liberal use of song of soothing on minstrels whenever its off cooldown), then this phase was smooth. Assigning clock positions also seemed to help keep everyone spread out enough to avoid excessive debuff contamination, might want to have a class thats not overly taxed in this phase call out either names, or clock numbers when they see an eye, so the two next to that player know to move a bit (not sure if it was just a random effect, or a result of the debuffs spreading, but sometimes there was a root on the one with the eye, in my case at least anyway, so best to get others to move).

Phase 2 - Didn't notice any more eyes at this point and apparently according to Hirion and Daphne there were no more wipes, so things will calm down a bit here. We saw darklings coming from at least two positions and for the most part they were handelled very well. Ok, now drawing attention to the pictures for the debuffs.

Supressing Shadows - Comes from the tendrils. One of the pictures faintly shows the tendrils on the ground after i ran away from them. Once they appear, they apply a root - 4 seconds or so, and they stay on that spot for about 10-15 seconds, so its just a case of moving after root expires. It seems if you run back into them by accident that you get rooted again, as i discovered many, many, many times last night ;).

Shadow Vortex - Love the description. Anyway, after one of those darklings on speed dies, about 2 seconds later a vortex appears. If you're on it, you go under. Not sure if this impacts threat, but likely if the main tank gets this he'll be untargetable and out of reach for the Blind One anyway. Important to note that you can be healed without penalty when under the sea.

Phase 3 - Corruptions spawned fast, i.e watcher pre book 8 fast. Must have been every 5 seconds or less based on the number he had when things went bad. No need for another screenshot to show the same thing, but +50% was painful (although should be noted that without the eye coming up, whenever the Blind One turned on me, i was able to keep myself alive, even with induction setbacks, so with a dedicated tank, staying alive with up to 4 buffs on him should be at least feasible. No sign of the eye returning, but the tendrils were still appearing, not sure about the darklings though.

Blind One's Shadow - Had over 500'000 morale, assuming the same as the blind one. Was rootable, unsure about stuns (hoping he will be). More appeared as time went on, as we saw at least 2 at once. If we assume they are coming once every minute until we learn of a more accurate number (or someone corrects me that they came after another shadows death) we have two choices - CC them all (which may just mean rooting if other CC is ineffective) or kill them fast. This is up to the LRM mostly, so i'll ask this - assuming it takes us about 8 minutes to do enough DPS to finish off the last 200k or so, do you think you'd be able to keep enough Shadows locked down if you had a good rotation set up?. Also, what skills were used that caused 50'000 damage when you used them? Think i heard rising dawn, but assuming others worked too, would be good to get a list and see if they were all light damage as a few seemed to think last night.

Phase 4 - Hoping like hell it does not exist, (Balrog 12k panic is my only fear)

Still, getting him down to 116k on our first real go at him, especially considering we took down at least 75k of his morale in that last phase was absolutely brilliant, great job all and here to our next try :)


Tier - You really were taking a lot of damage when you ran in/out, so my suggestion would be to stay outside for the first phase, kill darklings on the second phase and then go melee for stage 3 to help clear corruptions and get some traited disables in when it will really make a difference (preferebly staying inside as well at this point). Otherwise, without Noble Blood/Pure of Heart as an entrance buffer, its best to avoid running in early as while the debuffs are handy, a good deal most of the damage was from the aura itself, which probably wasn't hugely impacted by tricks, if at all.

[Notiane]

Was rootable, unsure about stuns (hoping he will be). Yes, stunable, mezzable. Without MoNF(dps trait) penalties to BF, 1 LM should be able to keep one out of the fight with his eyes closed, two with a little effort, and more if roots are used. Do these clones have ranged attacks? Roots wouldn't be too helpfull then.

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Didn't notice any, just saw one rooted and watching the fun. Don't think he had the cloud aura either, as i only remember seeing one buff on him, which i know was not that one (possibly just the common immunity, either way it was something minor and nothing new so i just glossed over it).

So, if they are fully CC'able, then with good timing i'm hoping our two loremasters will be able to keep two mezzed and one rooted each, our faithful burglar will keep one more down, which buys us considerable time to get the blind one down. Possibly once we have 4 locked, we could start killing the first, or something like that, but really if we can just CC them out of commission, we should do as much as possible so we can focus more on the darklings (if they are still around) and the blind one himself.

[Anaeth]

The acid-zone around BO seem to expand a lot when entering ph3 and the tank also seems to take a lot more damage. Should we not try to move him during phase 2 to example the wall that is around 7 o'clock. That wall seems to be further in. Why the tank took so much more damage i don't know but what if we only have the tank inside his cloud, all healers spam-healing tank, ranged take him down slowly and melee on shadows that can't be cc'd?

[Hirion]

Definately an idea.

As for the tank going down I think two thing might have played a part - we had one more lore-master Friday = more removal. And I aslo suspect, though cannot be sure, that I got more concentrated healing when I tanked third phase Friday. Part of that might have been more needing healing/ressing as they entered the acid death than last.

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Corruptions plain and simple. We didn't have a firm control on them in phase 3, really we need to get a good order going so people can use them from range whenever they are off cooldown, and in melee more regularly to ensure he gets two up at most. Champs need to be inside to clobber as well, as that induction, coupled with the bonus damage seemed like a one hit kill.

[Ontaremakil]

By my side nothing else to say about phase 1 that is not sayed yet.

On phase 2 is quite easy to control the darklings for a champ, just stay near the door, in range to shoot the BO and having the camera looking at the door, when you see a darkling coming just make any 360º area attack, I recomend Raging Blades, even if it needs 5 fervour pips, and problem solved.

In the third phase having only 1 champ could be a hell to use feral strikes to remove corruptions every 5 secs + clobber if he does his special and lovely attack, because if we are doing any attack we might be late to clobber because of the previous skill, so if we have 2 champs down there I would recomend 1 going only for feral and the other going only for clobber, to make things easier and don't miss any clobber by accident

Just 2 things to coment about the clones in phase 3, I haven't seen any range attack either and I got agro of one of them and he hit around 500 with heavy armor, so taking a few of them and kitting shouldn't be a problem for a heavy class

[Tiermond]

If your having trouble getting your clobbers in might need a burg addling.

[Anaeth]

Hmm, Corruption :S yes. Still think we should concider moving him due the zone-enlargement that seems to take place.

[Rhyaehar]

I'll add some things per phase.

Snipped a whole load of stuff. I'll tell you why later - Raedwulf

Still, getting him down to 116k on our first real go at him, especially considering we took down at least 75k of his morale in that last phase was absolutely brilliant, great job all and here to our next try :)
That is a very very good attempt. Very impressive.


Tier - You really were taking a lot of damage when you ran in/out
I'll explain why. No doubt you've seen the acid aura around the blind one. It does not only do a DoT, but also punishes you for entering or leaving the aura. That's why your tanks also get quite a bad hit for those knockbacks in stage one. It's why we keep as few people within melee range, and only allow the burglar in for debuffing if the minstrel is confident he has the morale levels of the others in melee range under control. Entering the area and leaving the area is very heavy on morale.

[Eiyja]

yes every time he killed me in phase 3 was because of the induction combined with the many corruptions. the damage was between 8-10k and I dont have that kind of moralepool yet hehehe.
so either he needs to be interrupted 100% in phase 3 wiht no room for mistakes. I was not able to handle it myself as a GRD can only shave down her interrupt to 10 seconds cooldown and in periods he used his induction more frequently than that.... or I have yet another suggestion on how we can handle that.

Suggestion one is to have a champ always balled up there with the guardian for interrupts.

Suggestion two Im not sure if it works but if it does it is easier. At one point in our last attempt when BO started his induction and my stamp was on cooldown I just started backing away from him (dont ask me why lol I just did that). Anyway it seemed he couldt get his induction off if the target is not within melee range. Either that or I evaded- Im not sure which one but my evade is only uh 7% maybe? Anyway there I was thinking; "oh f**ck off not again" and waiting for the killing blow.. and waiting.. and it never came. I was too focused to get those interrupts in and I didnt wana start "testing" this tactic on my own causing a wipe if failing. So I just wrote if off as a possible evade or a stroke off luck for the time being so I wouldnt have to think of more stuff right there and right then.

Next time though- as it seems wiht or without struggle we are totally capable to take it to phase 3 most of the times- I would like for the tank to just attempt running straight through him and out of melee range behind him when he does an induction in phase 3. Running forward is faster than running backwards and you have a better overwiev so you dont run into a darkling when running forward.

Personally I would love to try the run-thing before starting to focus on interrupt coordination because if it works it solves a lot of problems.

[Dellannan]

Do you know if that attack is an area attack, or personal attack.

I just remembered back to Fil Gashan and the last boss there. The add that comes into play in the second phase there does a fire breath skill every so often, that sets you on fire if it hits you. That attack is not targeted at one person, but in the direction he is standing. So the easiest way to avoid it is to just run through him, he wont turn in the induction phase, and you are safe from being set on fire.

If the big hit from BO works like that, then it should be very easy to avoid it by simply running behind him. And also if there are several of us close to him, all others should be positioned behind him at all times (Should be there anyway to reduce the parry and block chance).

On the other hand, if it is targeted and one person directly, he might turn around as you run and hit you anyway if you are close to him.

But if its a melee attack it should be given that it should be possible to run away to avoid it as long as he cant move while doing the induction.

Certainly worth a try, and can save you if a champ fails the clobber. If not we loose a tad of dps but that is not our biggest problem here i think.

[Eiyja]

well all I really know at this point is that I did not get hit when I was out of his melee range. (that time I was infront of him but out of melee range)
EDIT: and if I didnt get hit then it must mean nobody else did either as I was still the closest one to him

running behind him instead of backing out when trying this I suggested only because its faster to run forward + you can better see where the darklings are so you dont get caught in the vortex

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Great dancing monkies, its a Wall of Text! Ye have been warned.


Thoughts for discussion about each of the three phases



Phase one
Two guardians might not be the best combo if a lot of threat generation requires block/parry response skills. Second class building threat through damage seemed to work best. One thought worth considering is if you had say a champ and a guardian, given the kicks seem to come between 20 and 30 seconds (granted i only managed to time four of them), its posible to have the guardian tank, have the champion use his challenge at the 20 second mark, then aim for the blind one to kick the champs aggro away instead of the guardian. We need a little better placement for the others - some spots make it very hard for people to move away with green eyes inparticular (really we should treat the eyes the same - the person with the eye stands still and the others move away, more likely to minimise spreading). Given my views on the later sections needing a champ to clobber a lot, might be worth trying champ & guardian, or go the whole hog and add a burglar too for provokes and disables



Phase two
Went great, no complaints. Raging blades seems a little overkill though, thought they only had about 120 morale each? Phase 3 seemed to happen at about 200k, so best to get people into position at 210k to get on top of things fast. (having the champ in melee at this point might even be a good idea as i think the inductions started at the beginning of phase 2). One point - do we need to keep fighting him in the middle? Might be worth moving closer to the door, say to 5 or 7, would allow people to get further away from the darklings.



Phase Three - melee & corruptions
Melee range - 4 at most here, preferebly 3 as spam healing is the name of the game. My preference would be for a burg, champ and a guard/warden. Burg to disable, addle and twist, champ to clobber pretty much non-stop (as that induction attack was one-shotting the guardians with very few corruptions up) and the tank to remove corruptions and, well, tank. Corruption removal is essential, but since its mostly from range it rules out the usual tactic of minstrels taking care of it. Morale is about 200k/500k at this point, so hunters and loremasters can remove 3 every 30 seconds. Hopefully there will be 4 in total, which when coupled with the melee classes (burglar inparticular for this calculation as his role is more flexible here) helping from time to time, will be able to remove on average one corruption every two seconds or so - he can't possibly be stacking them faster than this. Set up a good rotation schedule amongst the ranged players to ensure he *never* gets 4 corruptions up at once (burglar CD is 45 seconds as opposed to 30, so better suited for emergency use). From my experience, as long as the minstrels can get out of the tendrils fast enough, they can heal damage sourced from up to 4 corruptions at a push. Also if he's not FSM immune, we could just fire these off when things get bad - not necessarily for noble blood/pure of heart, but to lock him down for 6 seconds every 10 seconds. If he is anything like most enemies, he won't be able to stack corruptions while stunned, giving us time to get them under control, heal up, recover CD's, etc; 6 seconds is a long time in this game.



Phase three - Shadows
Note, first i saw of this guy was him running past me from the 2 o'clock position, will check again to see if theres a spawn point next time.
Ok, assuming they appear once every minute (again, will time), our random loremast...who are we kidding - Ang and Noti, have two options. CC to death asap so theres never two at once (CtG allows for blinding flash every 5 seconds, would help considerably), or just keep each shadow CC'd, and reapply slowly over time to kill them while keeping them out of the fight. Only issue is balancing this with the slightly more urgent task of corruption removal. I know there was no acid aura, i also think there was no slow immunity either, so kiting one about could very well be viable. No word about hunter CC and minstrel fear appeared to fail, any confirmation? Basically if you can burn them down in under a minute, without losing focus on blind one corruption cycles, then it probably going to be the best strategy.


If it wasn't obvious - expect no help from loremasters, they will be pretty damn busy.



Thinking about it logically, this fight really is very doable. Take phase three as any one part and this fight isn't that hard, its just the coordination and balance that will be tricky. Saying this though, I am confident we can beat him within our next three visits if we can work together and our assumptions so far are proven accurate, or at least close enough.

[Eiyja]

very good overwiev of the fight. I agree with the most.

a few thoughts of my own.

*in phase 2 a GRD with traited stamp cooldown (quick of foot+ line bonus) and stamp cooldown legacy on 2nd or 1st age LI (capped legacy) can handle the interrupts all by him/herself without any trouble. (Not everyone have/use/prioritize that though).

*In phase 3 on the other hand its impossable for GRD to interrupt alone so another interrupt class in there like you suggested is great - IF the raid choses to use interrupts.

*If the method I suggested just above is used by tank getting away from melee range instead (beware that the Blind Ones melee range has further reach than ours <I would say its about 1,5 times our normal (5m) melee range = about 8 meter> to avoid inductions and if it actually works (must be tested) then putting a champ on clobber duty is not needed and he can make better use of his magnificient damage. If it works we also will have no one-shot deaths due to the occactional clobber/stamp miss hits.
EDIT; also champion could this way help out with the shadow adds, thus one less person to heal inside the acid cloud (if the chosen strategy is to kill the adds instead of perma-rooting them.. anyway more options if consta-clobber not needed)

[Dellannan]

Another vital point in this fight (seen from a minstrels point of view) is the -90% outgoing and incoming healing form the tendrils. This makes us all needed to move every so often if you want to hand out or receive healing.

The moving alone may reduce the healing from a minstrel quite a lot, and consider the root for 4 sec, means that there is next to no means in healing that person. Or dish out any healing if its the healer that is rooted.

This can be solved by handing out the boots to the light armor users, as they gives a -4 sec cd on roots. Somehow I don't think its random that one piece of rad item got this buff.

Because of the tendrils its also important that everyone pays attention to their debuff bar, and move if you got that green one that looks like a healing icon.

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Weird, another dropped message, 2nd time this week.

Ok, what did i say again...

- Inductions happen much more frequently in phase 3? Good to know

- Running away from melee attacks is very risky, as you could end up killing yourself from leaving and returning to the acid cloud. While a good idea, i think it should be used only when stamp is on cooldown and the champion is defeated.

- Traditional DPS is a bit worthless on the shadows. In the time a champ does 10'000 damage, a loremaster could do 150'000. Also the champs attacks would break stuns/mezzes, and in general add stress to the adds. They can pick them up if needed (ie, too many to handle for a while), but it feels like the melee classes not in the cloud should be doing one of the following
1) Monitoring corruptions (Ang's focus might be too split for this)
2) Noting spawn points of the shadows (do they appear at random, from one spot, or from multiple specific spots aka the vortex thingies)
3) Prepared to run in and assume the duties of a fallen cloud member without being instructed to (time will be of the essense here).

[Eiyja]

yes in phase 3 the inductions come on a lot tighter timetable. moreso, not only do they come less frequently in phase 2 but they also do substantially less damage in phase 2 due to no corruptions.

I didnt notice taking any extra damage from acid that one time I backed out of melee range in phase 3. Didnt someone say the poison cloud grows very large in phase 3 (?) so running out of melee range should be risk-free as you still are inside the cloud?.

If the clobbering works flawless then ofcourse any tank me included would prefere it. I always rather stand still and tank over running around. The easier the better. BUT it has to work 100%. there is no room for a single miss. Else its all over.

All I am saying is it takes only one missed interruption in phase 3 to guarantee a dead tank. And its way easier to just run out of melee range, provided that it works. I still think it needs to be tested. One serious attempt to try this is all it takes to know if its a good or bad plan.

ps1. if the method works and we let BO stay in his induction always = less damage on tank. He does not hit the tank while locked up in the induction. If interrupted he goes back to hitting the tank immediately.

ps2. (uncertain) if BO is locked up in induction longer time and we not interrupt him, he might build corruptions slower. Because the time he is prepping for his induction attack he is not building corruption I think (uncertain)

[Derigar/Tarinas]

If we have the ideal makeup, we'd have long inductions thanks to the burglar and three characters all capable of induction interruption. If the champion is resisted, then the others can use theirs, so if they worked well together i'd hope it wouldn't be much of an issue

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Having given this some more thought (and had all the memories of b/p/e/m clobbers on my champ come flooding back following a bit of soloing), i've come around to the thinking that stepping back from the attack may be more reliable: a choice between reaction and luck essentially (still would like addle on him at all times though to give +25% extra time to back off). One question though: Was this attack single target, frontal AoE or full AoE? Obviously this would make a bit of a difference as to who needs to back off and how. With any luck the floor can be used as a distance guide - maybe if he's in the middle, then running off the platform is far enough for example. Still, even this change doesn't impact my preference for both a champion and burglar in melee range to help with corruption, DPS and inductions if the melee group gets rooted. The more i think about it, the easier this fight actually seems - assuming 3 things:

1) If its possible to ensure the induction attack never connects by simply stepping back, keeping the people inside the cloud alive won't be too bad. Even with multiple corruptions stacked, they really are more of a nuisance than a significant threat until 3 or 4 are up - its their percentage boost to an already powerful induction attack that is the problem.

2) If two Loremasters can burn down a shadow in under a minute (or however long it takes for another to appear), while still helping with corruptions, then this fight starts to become very managable (for non-loremasters ;)). We need to figure out the spawn location(s) of the shadows, maybe put Ang and Noti by the two Side Thingies(tm), then if we have the boss over by 5 or 7 o'clock they will have a direct line to each other with no acid and can cover most of the room. Root/stun on sight, the other runs over and both burn it down asap, listening out for whoever is calling out the corruption removal order.

3) If things get bad and the boss isn't outright resistant, we can have our burglar fire off an FSM to halt the current script and get things under control (heals, corruptions, shadows, etc), regardless of that minute long FSM immunity. Also, i know Y does common damage so is useless, but does this apply to R as well (i'm a burglar and feel dirty for not knowing ;)), or are we restricted to G/B?

[Tiermond]

I was able to start fm's on the Blind One and I would think from what I've seen of the fight that G/B would be most useful.
My understanding from about 2 years ago was that if the first person in a fm hit R then it took the damage type of that persons primary weapon (unless a hunter using a bow), otherwise it's common damage. A lot of things have changed over the last year or so and this would require testing.

[Eiyja]

I think Tiermond is right, most often Im the one pressing first in a FM and those times I have checked in my combat log it states the FM does beleriand damage (which I have on my tanking wpn).

I believe this applies on both Red and Yellow.

Not sure if you need to be the one who presses the very first colour OR if you have to be the one who presses the first R or Y in the FM in order to make the FM do the damage type of your weapon. (Im thinking for instance a straight GYBRGY.. if you have beleriand wpn and pick the 1st Green and everyone else uses common damage.. does that work.. or do you have to be 2nd and Yellow = first damage colour??)

[Derigar/Tarinas]

I can promise you it doesn't for yellows, my burglar brain hasn't atrophied quite that much yet ;)

My guess is if we do this last phase right, it should be over quick, so FSMs will mostly serve best as refuls and script interrupts (oathbreakers, strength stance, the lot, we have built up the aggro pool pretty much since the start of phase 2, now its time to burn him down fast before lady luck has the chance to get in our way ;))

[Dellannan]

Concerning the fsm, and dmg type, I was of the impression that the red one was split up in every persons dmg and dmg type.

Have we thought of when/if we want to move BO to 5 or 7 o'clock? I think that it might could be a good idea to move him in the 2nd phase when we got more control of the fight, and thus be ready for the mayhem in 3rd phase. This will also reduce the risk of getting one of the tanks vanish from those adds in that fight. If I'm not wrong, there spawns one in the middle and then very close to where the tanking ones stands.

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Yeah, seemed one came from the middle, only thing is since we haven't really moved him about much, it might turn out that one appears at the blind ones feet, and not the middle :P

Still, feels moving him over to the wall would give us much more freedom to move about, and minstrels a lot less of a headache to heal people across the other side of the room.

[Ontaremakil]

I've been thinking about his special attack on phase 3, the one he used to killed me once and I was a few meters away from him and at his back, but I cannot be sure that he turned just to hit me and after that back to Eiyja, in fact I really think that the attack killed me being at his back, but I was paying more attention to my morale than his position and don't have any screenshot of the moment

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Hmm, best to play it safe and just assume its a full AoE attack then

[Eiyja]

For the tank it would be very easy to move him anywhere in the room after phase 2 has started so thats no problem.

If the induction infact is an AoE attack then our only option is to interrupt it.. then I wont even suggest trying the other method for tank to run out of range.

With some debuffs that makes his induction last longer Im sure a GRD and a CHM can work together and interrupt every induction. With no debuffs its tricky.. I noticed last go that if I have just started an attack that has medium to long animation such as shield bash or shield swipe I can not get my qued up interruption attack off fast enough before he has already finished his induction. (maybe this is the reason why Guardian legendary daggers were introduced.. either that or for gutting fish *giggles*) That was what killed me 2 times. The third time was because my stamp was still on cooldown when he already made another induction.

And like already said.. those inductions hit me for 8-10K damage so its an insta-goodnight if they come through.

And after reading up some I think I agree that the best way to use FMs would probably be for regenerating reasons (aka greens and blues)

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Hang on, i'm a little confused. If you were able to dodge one of the induction attacks by moving away, why would that change now that we suspect this is an AoE attack? The melee classes are non-induction classes so can move freely, and if you were able to back off enough to dodge this attack, then so should they - this knowledge does not retroactively change what happened in our last attempt ;). The fact that skill queueing was directly responsible for failing an interrupt would seem to be evidence in favour of running away instead of interrupting.


You'd probably all want to move in the same direction if possible to make sure after the animation you don't find the Blind One running away and moving someone out of the acid cloud.

[Eiyja]

I dont know really what is best option to do. I figured if the induction is aoe then its easier to interrupt than to make all melee move. then again maybe there are not so many melee.. hmm. and yeah youre right it was painful to attempt interruption those times when youre just in the beginning of an attack that is not very quick (mostly shield attacks.. something guardians really have to keep doing to hold agro).

on the other hand the price to pay for knowing if it works or not to move away from his melee range when he is prepping his induction is just one extra wipe so Im wiling to try it :D if it infact works, be it an aoe attack or not, then it would be the easier option for sure.

maybe the best way is to just get in there and try it.

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Yeah, we have a number of new ideas to potentially try out next run, covering most of the issues we ran into last time. Until we actually go in and give them a shot, we really can't debate which approach would be better: bring on the next attempt ;)

[Ontaremakil]

I just go t a silly idea thinking on a GRD that can move BO...:lol:

What about if everyone groups in the middle and just the GRD kites the BO in the outside running all the time, meanwhile everyone shoot him from a safe position? This obviously is only possible if the GRD never loose the agro and if he can go faster that the BO to avoid the special attack...silly idea, I know :lol:

[Tiermond]

The darklings appear at various points around the edges as well as in the middle

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Kiting may work, except it would mean we'd have less players to remove corruptions, and every time he stops for an induction, the guardian could very easily just run out of the aura. Worth keeping in mind though

[Eiyja]

Will there be no DN raid this week? :( I dont see any signup thread anywhere yet.

[Raedwulf]

There is no raid this week. I am knackered, pissed off, and the way this week has been going, we would merely serially wipe on the Twins... There will be a raid next week, at a slightly later time than usual, on WED & THU (please note the dates).

[Hirion]

There will be a raid next week, at a slightly later time than usual, on WED & THU (please note the dates).
Ahemn. Locks reset Thursday morning....

[Raedwulf]

Well that buggers that plan then. I thought they reset Sunday night? Ho hum. Well I can't do Tues, and I can't do Friday-Sat, so that's up the Swannee. I may well do Wed & Thu anyway. It's good practice & the chance for 8 bits of +20 rad if we get it right.

Anyway I actually dropped back in to say that I'm considering a Sat-Sun raid this w/e. I don't yet know whether I will be going down to London. If I decide not, there will likely be a Sat / Sun raid, so watch the board tomorrow...

[Hirion]

I might be mistaken. Will research - especially I want to put my raid up soon and Wednesday being my window of opportunity for that.

[Rhyaehar]

Locks reset on Thursday morning indeed.

Watcher and Turtle also reset on Monday morning. Unsure of instances such as Rift.

[Derigar/Tarinas]

On the plus side, a plan like that would help us get some of those coveted boots spread amongst the squishies ;)

[Ontaremakil]

Last time I checked, and was a couple of weeks ago, the Rift and Carn Dum resets as the watcher, the only one who has no locks right now is Urugarth

[Eiyja]

I asked this also in the raid-signup post (together with my apologies for the disconnection and explanation for what happened- I blame my shitty provider for it and according to them it shouldnt happen anymore) but Id better ask here too;

did we learn anything new from the BO fight after I left yesterday? I like the idea of moving him into the corner to the left of the cave entrance. I guess you didnt kill him else I wouldve read about it somewhere by now ?!?

From my limited wiev the only big problem I could spot was the corruptions. Seems one champ+GRD is enough to interrupt in phase3. I dont know if the adds were a problem as I did not see much else than a pair of gigantic orc-balls up in my face.

So unless there is nothing else we just need a solid corruption removal plan that works and we should be able to beat him?!?

[Raedwulf]

We only had one serious go at him yesterday, which was the one you were in. I like my corruption removal plan, so I'm going to stick with that for the time being. This is another fight like The Twins - I think we've probably got it sussed, it's just a matter of being successful. And more radiance will help the tactics work... ;)

[Hirion]

I dont know if the adds were a problem as I did not see much else than a pair of gigantic orc-balls up in my face.´
Is that some sort of air-freshener in your helmet or just a good luck charm you brought to the fight? Considering that there are no orcs in that fight _O-

[Eiyja]

oh, I couldve sworn they were orc-balls..
ait if we need to be that picky about it; "ancient-eevul balls then" Who am I to disagree with the expert of evil balls^^

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Right, stuff we learned.
- Corruptions came faster than once every 5 seconds, closer to once every 3 seconds
- Darklings appear from the vorticies and the centre - NOT the Blind One's feet
- Tanking him in the corner was very much viable. Guess our expectation that he would run around like a lunatic was bourne from a tanking class dying early in one of our previous efforts. We need to keep an eye on the acidic aura - had quite a few people drift inside slightly and not notice, which put unnecesary strain on the healers.

As for our performance, we did well - one shot and we got him down 80'000 morale in phase three - a decent effort.

My guess is that we just got a little unlucky. The shadow seemed to either get in too close, or a rogue attack killed a LRM, which eventually released the shadow, who then proceeded to rip through our squishy ranks until our corruption removal ability was pretty much gone. For next week, i see two approaches.

1) Carry on as before - if we can lock down the shadow and keep corruptions low, he should be dead from DPSitis in about 2-3 minutes, which will probably be no more than 3 or 4 shadows (even considering the corruptions got up to about 8 or 9, it was still possible to heal through his normal hits...barely, it was the shadow tearing through our ranks that was doing the most harm)

2) If we take our time in phase two, *really* let our guardian get his aggro through the roof, get oathbreakers and other such cooldowns ready, then we might just try popping FH, have all melee units run inside, hunters swap to strength stance (heartseekers, burn hot, etc) and just batter the hell out of him, when FH runs out, LS/IHW, open an all green FSM, etc. I can't imagine him surviving more than about a minute of this concentrated level of attack (assuming we clobber him still, of course, and that the minstrel using FH doesn't do so while caught be a tendril, as thats just depressing to watch ;)).

To me this is the sign of a well designed fight - like the trolls. It never seems as if its completely random and unwinnable, just really difficult.

[Dellannan]

How is agro working on the shadows? On our first attempt yesterday I had one on me several times, and that doesn't make it easier for them mns to heal in the fight. I was however able to fear him until someone broke the fear most likely from an aoe skill.

Could it be an idea to have someone designated to tank them, and bring them somewhat away from the boss and minstrels? We still need to cc them, but when they are loose, it is much better if they run to one designated person, rather then to a random squishy one.

This will off course mean that we have one less to dps the boss, but the reward is a bit less strain on the mns/lrm.

On the other hand, if the cc damage we do to them counts to the agro list, then I don't think there is much we can do to keep them off the lore masters.

[Notiane]

We seem to get to the 3rd phase almost comfertably, and after that I feel we mostly lack experience. I'm still trying to figure out where the clones spawn, for example, them being my main concern. From this last try I know the 1st clone was down before the 3rd spawned, and I'm pretty sure we got room to improve there.

The other thing, corruptions, I shamefully admit not having paid any attention to those, having my eyes on the clones. I myself would benefit from someone telling me to toss in a removal.

[Notiane]

since my last post crossed Dellannan's, yes it's still a bit messy, but I think the LM's (maybe even just one) should be able to keep those clones out of the fight. I'm pretty confident that, once I get a feel for when and where they spawn, they will almost never hit anyone, mostly aggro'd on me, but too far (or too dazzed) to actually hit me.

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Noti, until we learn any different its probably best to assume they appear the same as the darklings - vortices and centre once every minute or so (i know one of them came from somewhere close to the 3 gate on our second day fighting him, but thats the only one i've seen so far and i haven't timed their appearance either, just a ballpark figure). Thats why i was keen on you and Ang spreading out towards the end of phase 2 and standing somewhere close to the middle, facing 3 and 9 with 12 in your view, that way one of you can spot a shadow appearing quickly, get in some type of CC so the other can come help, burn it down asap (chucking the occasional corruption removal towards the Blind One as deemed necessary - probably the job of a melee until to call out), then get back to your original positions to watch for the next one (Assuming you can kill one reliably before a second appears). Also assuming we don't just root/mez lock them and try the 'Raedwulf his face off' strategy.

[Runyawen]

I can say for certain that the hunter Mezz skill does not do significant damage to the shadows, only mezzes them. :) I was going to try the fear, but I died too soon :p

[Runyawen]

Ok, so coordination is needed~ .. I don't think we actually knew that one.

[Ontaremakil]

We did learn that we can reset the fight if we grab Mr BO to the door, but nothing else when you left. We only tryed once more with me as main tank and the bloody and ugly BO resisted twice my taunt and screw us

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Eveningstar, since you haven't been on DN runs with us in a while and therefore have aquired your knowledge elsewhere, could i ask you to refrain from giving advice like that? We could look up the specifics if we chose to, but we're trying to work these details out from our experiences. Being told things kind of takes the fun out of it.

[BSili IronMight]

Am I ok to post some Guardian advice here based on our recent victory over the Blind One? :D

[Raedwulf]

I'm presuming it's stuff that you worked out in our raid, so yes, of course.

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Definately, would be very nice if you did to help get us nail those repeat performances ;)

[BSili IronMight]

I'm presuming it's stuff that you worked out in our raid, so yes, of course.

It's not going to be from anywhere else since i've only ever been in the place once (during 1 lock) :P Also another reason why I chose the original words of "..based on our recent victory over the Blind One" is because things seem to have got a bit heated here so just making sure everyone knows that theres no outside info...

Anyways i'll write some stuff up and post when I can along with some theories that i'll test out when i'm next there...

P.S. I know i'm a recent addition and most of you havn't a clue about me.. but just to give you an idea of where i'm coming from.. it took me 6 months to get my original radiance gear because among other things I wouldn't exploit any of the instances.. i'd only do them in a 'proper' way.. meaning no exploits and no death res in places like Skumfil etc.. Other things like a few breaks and my rolls been really sucky in 16th Hall also added to the wait :P

Another thing is I always like to work out an instance without refering to any tactics... Everything in DN this raid lock I worked out from my own thoughts and input from the raid.. and it didn't go too badly :D

[Derigar/Tarinas]

You'll fit in well here :)

[Iasselm]

Anyone any ideas how to deal with those orc waves at the mistress? They either were attacking very fast or doing aoe damage because i saw alot of numbers above everyone's heads.

I was thinking of something like the watcher transition. Everyone ball up and let champs aoe. We might be taking too much damage then though. So, any thoughts?

[Raedwulf]

That I'd like another go on Wednesday when we have all 12 people for all the fight, and we're not knackered at the end of a longish evening, before worrying too much? ;)

[BSili IronMight]

That Orc wave seemed to just run round randomly hitting everyone.. but yeah best to have another go and make sure..

But I strongly suspect we'll need to group up together.. debuff them.. aoe etc.. and bring down their numbers as fast as possible to make them managable.. alot like the tentacle phase in Watcher... although be interesting to find out how long that wave lasts for because extra orcs were still getting launched in as everyone became incapacitated :s

[Iasselm]

oh well, I figured that we know at least a little more then last time so could just try to find a solution so we may be able to avoid another wipe (fortunately i'm playing a lightarmour class so repair costs aren't that much ;) )

[Tevra]

Mistress of Pestilence:

These are only some observations from our first fight but I've used the spoiler tag in case anyone doesn't want to read them:


Up to the wave of Globsnaga Orcs, she doesn't do much damage to the main tank (tested when I had to briefly 'stand in' as Tevra until Gila could take over).

She was surrounded by a circle of no-heads (missed the names?) that had a seemingly un-removable buff indicating they would heal their allies if close enough. We successfully pulled one away at a time to kill.

As some point a LOT of Globsnaga Orcs appeared. I didnt seem them do any ranged damage but that's when we began to wipe. I wish I'd tested my AE champion stun on them now to see the result.

Before I died I saw a 2nd wave of Globsnaga arrive. They appeared simultaneously at the far edges of the circular cave. The first wave weren't all down and I wonder if it's possible the wave is caused by her health reaching a certain point and it had crept back up once most of us were dead /on the orcs?

[Rhyaehar]

Spoiler tags aren't really needed here Tevra. This is a discussion about progress made. Hiding that information would be of no use. As long as it is discovered in RRU raids, it's fair game to say so.

circle of no-heads (missed the names?)
World-Eaters. The same types you kill on your way to the Blind One and that we've seen in the Rift and Dark Delvings.

You have obviously also noticed a brief moment of being out of combat after the 4 WE's are dead. Use that well. It's about 10 seconds (unsure of exact time), just enough to get someone rezzed, or to eat or rebuy DP hope.

Before I accidentally say things I shouldn't; You've been through phase one successfully. Anything specific you noticed in that bit?

Before I died I saw a 2nd wave of Globsnaga arrive. They appeared simultaneously at the far edges of the circular cave. The first wave weren't all down and I wonder if it's possible the wave is caused by her health reaching a certain point and it had crept back up once most of us were dead /on the orcs?
That's an interesting question and one I don't really know the answer to. I only know that there is more then one wave of them. I'll have to start paying attention to this as well I guess.

[Iasselm]

World eater part wasn't a problem. The mistress herself seemed to spread some poison like missus turtoise. I also noticed that we were out of combat for a moment, but it was less then 10s. I resummoned pet and didnt have time to eat up after.

I always start to attack with light of the rising dawn to see what effect it has. The little clouds at the first part of the mistress fight can be killed by cc by the looks of it, or it has just like with the shadows at the blind one a significant damage bonus. I think I also managed to stun one of the orcs at the first wave. If that is true, sound the charge will be very useful there.

[Eiyja]

there has been like atleast three pages of questions on how to handle the shadows, the corruptions and whether or not to interrupt mister Blind One in the BO fight.

Congrats to everyone who was in the raid to kill him the first time. Now, for us who have been trying several times and who still dont know how you did it, would someone who knows (who was there for the success) mind posting a short summary of this before everyone start moving on to discuss the Mistress? Maybe safest to use spoiler tag just incase someone else is not as curious as me.

pretty please? :D thanks in advance

EDIT: forget about spoilers. after all its progress made within RRUS. just write down what happened *giggles*

EDIT2: Grand Congrats on getting the Mistress aswell!!! maybe post some summary of that fight aswell?

[Raedwulf]

I will start work on the guide. Panic ye not... ;)

[Eiyja]

wuhuu look forward to reading it!

[Haleabor]

We would appreciate it Raedwulf, particulary if some of us are lucky enough to get picked for this weekends runs and have not managed to be in those fights yet....

Thanks in advance

Hal

[Tevra]

ID#: 575663 Status: Closed Updated: 11/25/09 11:25 PM


Hi, friends and I are in the DN instance trying to finish the quest 'The heart of the scourge' but to no avail- we simply cant find where to use the phial of light. Could you please confirm whether this quest is impossible to complete / bugged so that we can give up for the night? This isn't asking for any spoiler info but we'd clearly be wasting even more time if this is the case :)


11/25/09 11:25 PM Dear Tevra, thank you for your ticket. Unfortunately we are not allowed to provide hints or solutions on how to solve a quest, fulfill a deed or beat a monster. Should you have difficulties with an encounter, please try to ask on the forums or in the advice channel or turn on the new quest guide feature. We can tell you, the quest works fine and isn't bugged. Should you encounter future problems in the game, please don't hesitate to submit a new ticket. Regards, GM Farileas

[BSili IronMight]

Hmm maybe they just don't know it's bugged.. Quest Guide doesn't do diddly squat and we ran all over the place to see where to use it..

Unless it's something daft like you have to use it during the Mistress fight but can't see it been that myself...

Any luck with finding any more info out about it? (i'm a stickler for completing quests :P)

Also with reference to the new Rough Guide to DN:

During Phase 4 of Mistress Fight -
If you hear a cry of "Poison!", it's cos someone saw the icon without realising what it was. It's not actually a poison, it's someone standing in the Killing Field.

This isn't always true as demonstrated in our 3rd attempt :P.. because there are during this phase random removable poisons that do around 800 acid damage per tick that appear on people... each individual should quickly use a pot.. and pray that a Hunter will save your bum if your on cd etc.. ;)

P.S. Reminds me.. need to compile some Guardian info for Blind One and Mistress..

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Agreed, there was a poison effect especially in the latter part of the fight that was independant of the killing field.

As for the quest, besides something obscure, like using it in the mistress/BO fight while in their respective auras, i'm at a bit of a loss as to how this quest be not be bugged

[Hirion]

11/25/09 11:25 PM Dear Tevra, thank you for your ticket. Unfortunately we are not allowed to provide hints or solutions on how to solve a quest, fulfill a deed or beat a monster. Should you have difficulties with an encounter, please try to ask on the forums or in the advice channel or turn on the new quest guide feature. We can tell you, the quest works fine and isn't bugged. Should you encounter future problems in the game, please don't hesitate to submit a new ticket. Regards, GM Farileas
I honestly believe it is another example of knee-jerk closing of tickets. After we had trouble finshing this quest - and after I had scourged every corner of DN I did a internet seach.

All major LotRO resources come up with the same answer - as does an extensive googling: no one knows of anyone who ever finished it, all sorts of things have been tried to finish it without luck, and several have recieved that same lame auto-reply of not giving hints or solutions.

[Hirion]

This isn't always true as demonstrated in our 3rd attempt :P.. because there are during this phase random removable poisons that do around 800 acid damage per tick that appear on people... each individual should quickly use a pot.. and pray that a Hunter will save your bum if your on cd etc.. ;)
I second that - used a couple of pots on that removable one and it without a doubt meant the difference between life and death on at least one occasion. As per usual it is destinguished from the other non-removable effect effect by the bright green border.

[BSili IronMight]

Guardian Thoughts for The Blind One & The Mistress of Pestilance

This is just a rough guide based on my own experience and that of the raid members from tackling these fights during the one Raid Lock that i've been in there. I don't claim everything said here to be the best way of doing things just that from my experience they helped me with tackling these encounters. So better ways of tackling these bosses may exist :P

Setup:

Armour wise you will ideally want 3 Durin's Guard pieces of armour matched with the 3 Stone-Guard's pieces for both 1440 Acid Mitigation and 1440 Shadow Mitigation as these are predominant during the Blind One and the Mistress of Pestilence encounters.

Traits wise I believe on top of the normal Guardian ones (Innocence etc) that slotting Fidelity (Shadow Defence) and Honour (Poison Resistance) somewhere in there can only help as I believe the Poison can be resisted much like the Watcher. I found I didn't have to have Loyalty as with the set bonuses and rest of the raid's buffs that Vitality isn't an issue..

Food Wise I went for Might food as the long term food just to make sure my Might was at cap, Agility food would also work.. but again Vitality food just isn't needed with the armour and group buff's. You are also expected to bring Lamb and Mushroom soups to help with poison resists.

Both the Blind One and the Mistress of Pestilence are immune to Common damage this means the use of Shield Spikes is a must. Beleriand seems to be the best choice as they are more prone to damage from Beleriand.. but any will do as long as they change the damage type from common.

The Blind One:


So you'll be tickling the Blind One in the middle island and you'll be doing this with a partner (make sure to use your Protection skill on your partner for reactive and survivability reasons). No matter who your doing it with one of you must be the Main Tank, the one who will always try and get the Blind One to hit them as priority. This is needed because every 30 seconds or so during the first phase he will punt the Main Tank far away and this has an immediate aggro drop, presumably this is a full aggro reset. What I would recommend you do at this point would be to run back to the island (because 2nd aggro should still have him there) then use Engage to get his attentions immediately back on yourself.. if this resists.. it gets a bit more complex and is all down to timing.

What you need to do is get a feel for when he's going to punt (all the while hitting him with aggro based skills)... someone has said its roughly every 30secs so in that case the feel should tell you to use Challenge (10 sec forced taunt) at 25secs roughly.. this is so if it works he will then punt you and not your partner.. and your Tanking partner will still be 2nd aggro... If Challenge fails then use Challenge the Darkness immediately (if its slotted) for the same effect. Then you can run back up and rinse and repeat.. always trying Engage first of all to get attentions then falling back on Challenge or Challenge the Darkness at the required times.

If you find that all your skills have resisted etc.. then chaos can take over, if your partner is a Guardian then you must give the word that you are out of skills to bring him back to you.. then that Guardian (after he has been punted) can do all the things that you were doing previously until he/she hits same snag then you try and take over again. If your partner is a different class then both you and partner have to try using any skills you can to bring him back to middle till you are able to take over properly again.

Thoughts for Rest of Raid - If you see that the Main Tank is stood with the Blind One and has no aggro and his partner is getting hit this will mean he will most likely be going a wandering shortly (if taunts resist).. At this point i'd suggest Call of Greatness is used on the Main Tank and that both Champions take what aggro they can from both Minstrels/RK's and both dump it on the Main Tank (Ebbing and Rising Ire). If theres anything else people can do that would help in this situation i'd recommend you do it.. like any aggro loss skills etc.. especially if he does end up wandering...


So you've had fun with aggro resets and taunts failing and at some point the Blind One enters phase 2, he says something and this is followed by someone in Raid Chat saying Phase 2! Your job is now to take him to the designated area which was to the bottom left of the room not far from the entrance you came through. Have him facing the wall.. I don't think facing him this way makes much difference as he still randomly turns round to put debuffs on the healers (tried this as someone asked for it but he still turned round from time to time to apply the debuff) but doing so makes people feel safer.

All you do in this phase is keep him there and keep an eye on your Morale and use your survival skills when it looks like its getting hairy.. Also you will have at least a Champion for company who will be stood behind the Blind One and is there to interrupt the moves he now does during this phase and for putting some damage on him, you can also join in with interrupts by using your Stamp.


It now gets extremely tricky for the entire Raid. For you its basically the same as Phase 2 except his moves come faster and he now gets corruptions of +50% damage at very frequent intervals (seeing 6+ on him is not unusual). This becomes even more important for using survival skills when needed and to ask for Corruption removal often (All classes should be assisting with this). You should cycle the use of Sting to help with this removal of these corruptions just like with the Watcher but they appear a lot faster and of course keep using your aggro and other skills as you would normally.

You must keep assisting the Champion with interrupts. If he has a good number of corruptions on him and he gets one of his moves in your likely to become incapacitated, if theres only a few corruptions on him and he manages one of his moves then it's not so bad and your likely to survive.

A few minutes later if it all goes well and everyone else has coped with the adds while removing corruptions from the boss then you have just defeated the Blind One!


I was contemplating the thought that Guardian's Threat Legendary may be useful here at least in early stages of Phase 1 if theres a lot of resists etc..

Basically the idea would be just after you have been punted and found Engage to have failed that Guardian's Threat is activated and you then do all your aggro skills as much as possible from behind the Blind One, when its close to using your Taunt you flip back to Guardian's Block then Taunt.. So whenever you get aggro back you then flip back to Block Stance you may not even need to Taunt.

During this time let the Champions know to grab and dump aggro on you (Ebbing and Rising Ire) and with a little luck the Blind One will be on you in no time. Of course if the Blind One does go a wandering and everything is on cool down then use Guardian's Threat Stance with skills to get his attentions till you got some taunts free again.

Traiting Challenge here is also likely to help, meaning your getting your challenge skill every 30 secs instead of 45 secs.


The Mistress of Pestilence:

To be completed....

[Raedwulf]

Tweaked the guide re the poison comments.

[Tiermond]

When the waves of orcs appear I found it best to save my fm starters for the second and 3rd waves, all green fm's can help a lot in keeping up with the healing.
In the last phase of the fight I tried starting 3 fm's on the mistress but none of them triggered, I may just have been unlucky with the other group having started fm's on her or she may be fm immune in the final phase. I was able to start fm's on her earlier in the fight.
This isnt a dps race so I kept traited disable on the mistress at all times.
Riddle didnt work on the clouds, possibly traiting it so it starts with a 5s stun might help.
I didn't try starting fm's on the overseers but will try that next time round, but I suspect here following the RAT and trying to max dps to kill the overseers as fast as we can is the priority.

[Eiyja]

Ive read the things in this thread and the DN guide that Raedwulf has now started on.

Very interesting reading :) Many thanks to the authors! I especially enjoy it since I have not been able to join/have not been picked to join for a good month and it helps fill out the missing gaps that is brought on by absence.

[BSili IronMight]

Added some extras in the Guardian guide to do with Shield Spikes and Phase 1 use of Protection skill (can't believe I forgot these although it was late when I did it :P)

[Haleabor]

A point for discussion about clock positions

It looks like the Hunter (or in Noti's case her!) seem to be next in line for any agro from the Blind One either a) when he does a kick or b) when something goes wrong and one of the tanks dies.

However, we also appear to be out of the healers range at 5/7 O'clock...

Just a thought....

And sorry for panicing in the last run, i didn't know he was following me

Hal

[Tiermond]

The problem with Noti and Hal getting agro was that Gil and Oderid got the eye on a couple of occasions and it was bouncing between them until one of them died. Then when the BO does his attack that resets agro on the main tank whoever is next on the agro list which will usually be a ranged dps will get the BO coming for them.
The minstrels will have a lot of work to do keeping the 2 tanks alive, we had 3 loremasters and 2 captains in the raid so there should have been people spaced all round the clock who could throw in additional heals as required.
This is a very unforgiving fight, one mistake or even a bit of bad luck with clobber missing or corruption removal failing and it very quickly can turn into a wipe.

[Raedwulf]

This is a very unforgiving fight, one mistake or even a bit of bad luck with clobber missing or corruption removal failing and it very quickly can turn into a wipe.

I don't normally use Netspeak, but QFT! Unfortunately we seemed to have a lot of bad luck in phase 1 last night. By contrast, the night we downed him, we were, apart from the first attempt, getting through to phase 3 regularly & smoothly. It was just one of those nights. We are, I think, where we were with the Twins - we've downed him once, so we know the tactics work, but we're not yet smooth & confident with the fight. It's a pity, in a way, the SoM is now coming out, because this won't hold the same challenge once we're past L60. It would have been nice to know we had this nailed. We'll just have to make sure we get into the DG raid a bit quicker. We were very slow to get going on DN.

A point for discussion about clock positions

It looks like the Hunter (or in Noti's case her!) seem to be next in line for any agro from the Blind One either a) when he does a kick or b) when something goes wrong and one of the tanks dies.

However, we also appear to be out of the healers range at 5/7 O'clock...

Just a thought....

And sorry for panicing in the last run, i didn't know he was following me

Hal

That's not a point for discussion, Hal, that's a known fact, and it was explained in the raid last night, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to raise it here. Also, the healers last night were positioned at 4 & 8, not 5 & 7. Give me some credit for knowing what I'm doing will you? :P Although, looking at the mapped positions again, that ought to have been 3 & 8, which I will try to remember in future.

And as for panicking, you're a n00b :+ but we love you! ;)

[Derigar/Tarinas]

A few points.

Main one as i proved a few weeks ago out of curiosity is that you can run around the entire room if you hug the walls (but not the swirly pits of death ;)) without triggering the fight. We should use this to our advantage so that we can take our time and make sure everyone is spread out far enough that eye passing isn't possible (margin for error is small, but with all the time in the world to organise it, we'll be fine).

Phase one is tricky for minstrels because knockbacks tend to push the targets out of (or close to) the aura border.

My preference when we try again is to do this for phase one so that the only players who need to actively watch their positions for the eyes will be the two tanks. If we lose control before we get him down to 435k (ish), then have whoever gained aggro (as mentioned before, likely going to be a hunter due to our limited damage options here) move with the tanks into the middle and then just race down to the next phase as fast as we can.

Phase two is the calmer part, we can give the guardian a lot of time to build rediculously high levels of threat for phase three. For phase three, i'm thinking if we have enough DPS and radiance we try a different tactic. Have our burglar in melee before this phase starts, then trigger an FSM as close to the transition as possible. Go all green. We then send in the burglar's group (which will be essentially all melee DPS classes) to go all out really and just damage like mad. When the green FSM ends, the minstrel can use FH for another 30 seconds of sustained DPS (probably looking at about 50 seconds at this point). Then try something a little sneaky - have the raid leader swap the minstrels in the groups so we can use another FH for the melee group to bump the DPS fest up to 1:20. After this, the cooldown for the FSM should hopefully be up (can't remember if he has any special limitations), but even if he doesn't, it'll knock him down for 5 seconds at the very least. Keep this up until the next FSM is open and repeat. So we'd be looking at about 1:20 of significant heals for the melee group (ranged should be fine if shadows are just kept stunned/rooted and we don't bother trying to burn them down), then having him stunned periodically if needed to give minstrels a chance to do a little extra healing, before firing off another all green FSM for more fun. Honestly if we have the shadow(s) out of the way and a bit of work on corruptions, this sustained level of DPS should flatten him.

Anyway, just a thought :p

[BSili IronMight]

I realise I wasn't in there with you on this go.. but I still remember the fight from week before and thought i'd throw a few bits in :twisted:

1st & 2nd aggro shouldn't be dying in the first stage as causes alot of problems by sounds of it (although if its first attempt of night with people getting used to stuff its not a worry).. reminds me that I need to put a bit of info about green and red eyes in the Guardian guide. Although I tend to think of that as general tactics that effect everyone.

It would have been nice to know we had this nailed.
We had it nailed for sure :P Thing is when you go in with different group (even slightly different) you can't always expect same outcome straight away.. whereas if it was exact same group you'd probably expect it.. Its just going in and doing it and figuring out what you need to do and then doing it better each go.

Phase one is tricky for minstrels because knockbacks tend to push the targets out of (or close to) the aura border.

My preference when we try again is to do this for phase one so that the only players who need to actively watch their positions for the eyes will be the two tanks. If we lose control before we get him down to 435k (ish), then have whoever gained aggro (as mentioned before, likely going to be a hunter due to our limited damage options here) move with the tanks into the middle and then just race down to the next phase as fast as we can.

Interesting on the Knockbacks aura border, Tanks should have the run key kept pressed to immediatly get back in middle after a knockback anyways and presumably that helps to avoid the border problem.

Good Idea on the Blind One wanders bit.. get whoever has aggro to the middle.. probably also during this time since no Tanks have much aggro as they bottom of lists that people don't snatch the aggro from the person who has it at this stage or its going to get messy :P

On the DPS idea.. don't like the swapping of Minstrel to another group as it borders on 'sneaky' as mentioned and shouldn't be needed :P Rest of it seems good just as long as everyone is first of all using their corruption removal as much as cooldown allows if they can on the Blind One (no good if no corruptions on him though so need to check for that) and the Guardian, Champion and Burglar are using Stamp, Clobber and Addle to interupt his moves (least that way theres 3 different types of interupts on him rather than just 2, also all melee should consider traiting Shadow Mit and wearing the Shadow Mit armour equipped to help when one of his moves does get through).. Burglar's timing FSM's at his induction points too would be useful... I think the combination of both the DPS idea combined with Corruption Removal and Interupts should be a prosperous path to go for :twisted: Least it sounds that way :lol:

Btw that all goes with everything else anyone should be thinking of doing like Captains with their LS and IHW when it looks shakey... debuffing the boss with LM and Burglar skills etc...

P.S. The Guardian guide isn't just for the Guardians to read theres good information in there so that everyone understands whats going on and what maybe needed at times especially in the First Phase of the Blind One encounter.. Like for example the Main Tank not getting hit and 2nd aggro getting hit.. if you see this happening its likely that the Blind One may go wandering so as a safe guard I'd made the suggestion in the guide that Call of Greatness be used from Minstrels on to the MT.. and that Champions use Ebbing and Rising Ire from Minstrels and dump onto Main Tank.. You also want your Hunters using the drop aggro skill and anything else that might help..