OBSOLETE - Raedwulf's Dar Narbugud loot rules

[Raedwulf]

Loot rules for barter coins are still under discussion, but having moved to open groups (The Invite group is dead! Long live the Open group! ;)), I need to publish something. My DN raid is, therefore, now a proving ground for new rules & variants on them.

This thread is closed. If you feel a desire to to comment or discuss, please do so in RRU Chat. Bear in mind two very important points. One - I am the Raid Leader; in my raid, my word is law (you don't have to raid with me if you don't like it). Two - ultimately, the rules will be decided upon by the RRU Trustees, with regard to the greater good of the group. Not by a general caucus of all members & recruits. Your views will be considered; they may not be reflected in the final result (it might sound cliquey, but if we did it any other way we'd never get anything settled! ;)).

26/12/09 - These rules are now obsolete. I'm leaving them up here, in case there is any future need to revert to a more complex distribution system i.e. so I don't have to type something up from scratch!

[Raedwulf]

Caveat: I do not necessarily know what loot is available in DN. Some of the clauses below may be redundant if loot of that type is not present or occurs too infrequently to invoke the clause.

There are 6 classes of loot: Barter Coins, Radiance Gems*, Second Age items, Chest Baubles^, Special Drops", Trash+. These rules may apply to Boss drops or chest loot - the nature of DN loot is less than fully divined, as you may have gathered! The Raid Leader reserves the right to vary the rules as he sees fit, when there is a good reason to do so.

The Unwritten Law - RRU is a friendly co-operative. It has always been the way that people will happily pass on loot in favour of those that can make better use of it, have won less, & so on and so forth. Remember this - it's more important than any actual "rules" we make. If we lose this ethos, we stop being RRU. OK, so now it's a Written Law... ;)

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1. Where potentially desirable restricted¬ items drop, preference will be given to a player in the raid that can use it immediately, over a player in the raid with an alt that can make use of it.

2. All trash loot is free rolling.

3. Special Drops are also free rolling. However, you may only win one per raid, unless they are restricted (see 1 & The UL above).

4. When Baubles drop in multiples, it is normally from Chest loot (hence the class name above). "Ordinary" Rune drops from trash mobs are always free-rolling. Multi-drops of large runes (anything 10,000+) / settings will be assigned on a sequential basis i.e. highest roller gets first pick, etc. The Raid Leader may ask for one roll per chest, or carry the roll list over through multiple chests~.

4.1. If exceptional runes are encountered (worth hundreds of thousands) they may be treated as one win per raid items.

5. Second Age items are one win per raid items. Clause 1 applies to a degree - preference will be given to a class in the raid. However, if all eligible classes in the raid have already won one, preference passes to any player alts of a high enough level to use it. For example, if the raid has a single Warden, and another Second Age WDN item drops, preference goes to players who have a Warden alt.

6. Radiance Gems - In the Rift, you were required to nominate which gem you wanted before the raid began. Initially, this will be redundant until we beat more than one boss; as time goes on, it will come into play again. When the Raid Leader places gem sign-up on the roster, you will only be rolling on your nominated gem. If there are gems left over, for any reason, they will be assigned according to the Raid Leader's whim! Your roll will be ACP x 100. ACP will be halved (rounded down) by a winning roll. See below for the definition of ACP...

* Barter Coins are the barter item for First Age Legendaries, I'm assuming the Radiance barter item is a gem, similar to the Rift.
^ Anything that can applied to a Legendary Item - IXP Runes & settings in other words.
" I.e. whatever the DN equivalents are for desirable "other" drops such as the Insidious Cuff, Wigfeld, etc...
+ Everything else!
¬ E.g. Restricted by class, trait, or anything else.
~ If you open multiple chests at once, it's common for more loot to be available than can be displayed, so the Raid Leader may not be able to see everything initially. This is one reason for splitting these rules out into so many loot classes! It does mean that the high roller might not win the best item. Don't whinge. ;)

[Raedwulf]

This is, probably, the most important part of the new loot system. It is also the most awkward part to deal with fairly, & the reason why, at the time of writing, the Trustees have not yet settled on a solution. The old Rift rules are not sufficient; we are absolutely dead flat against introducing a DKP system (which is totally unfair to PUGs & newer members). What we have discussed throughout have been variations on a Suicide Kings system, where your entitlement builds up until you win, at which point your entitlement resets back to a base point. What follows is the current best suggestion, still under discussion (yes, it's my suggestion. Naturally... ;)).

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Account Coin Points (ACP) & the Multiplier

1. Barter Coins, unfortunately, are Bind on Acquire. Our lives (and our system) would be a lot simpler if they were Bind on Account. But they're not. Don't blame the Raid Leaders! ;)

2. You gain ACPs based on your availability, actual attendance, and the number of coins you have helped to win. You may also be penalised for failing the raid in various ways. The ACP is, over the course of time, a variable quantity for all RRU members / recruits.

3. Because of the BoACQ stauts, all Barter coins will be retained by the Raid Leader. Those players entitled to a First Age item will have "their" coins cashed in by the Raid Leader, and the resulting item traded, unidentified, to them.

3.1. The inevitable result of this is that Raid Leaders are Raid Leders by alt. Your ACP total will be different e.g. with Angrenel as opposed to Raedwulf, as opposed to Hirion, Rhyaewald, or anyone else. This is unavoidable - because the coins are BoACQ, an alt can only trade coins when they hold enough to do so.

3.1.1. If, at some point in the future, Turbine are able to make Coins BoACC, all of a Raid Leader's ACP lists will be totalled e.g. if you have have 12 pts with one alt and 26 with another alt of the same RL, you'll have 38 on the new single list.

4. Our understanding is that bosses within Dar Narbugud drop variable amounts of coins each time they are killed. Every time there is a multiple of 6 coins available, everyone in the raid may roll to win a First Age item of their choice. The winner may freely pick the item - it can be for an alt, for an alt that isn't of high enough level to use it. You won, it's your choice. When you win, your ACP resets to 0, regardless of whether you choose a L59 or 60 item.

4.1. L59 items cost 4 coins; L60 cost 6 coins. There are game-mechanic reasons why it may be better for a player to choose a L59 item (primarily, L59 items actually have higher DPS. Although their damage spread is not as good, they are faster; and the percentage difference in speed is greater than the percentage difference in damage.) Four coins or six, it's your choice; your ACP still resets to zero. You won a First item, that's the price! If lots of people choose L59's, it just means there's more items to spread around the group... ;)

4.2 We helped you win it - you don't sell it. If your newly-won LI turns out to be crap, or at least not as good as what you've got, please display some respect towards your Raid Alliance. There are plenty of others that sighed sadly because they weren't lucky that time. They'd have loved to have had their chance... If your First Ager isn't good enough, level it & break it; if we see it on the AH, chances are you'll face a heavy ACP penalty in future (that's assuming we don't just blackball you & kick you out!).

5. Your roll is /roll(100 x ACP).

Explanatory - even if you've only 1 ACP, you've a chance. Not much of a chance if you're rolling against someone with 20ACP, but still a chance. And Mr 20ACP is going to reset to 0 if he wins. On the other hand, if you're unlucky over several runs, you are still, ultimately, pretty much guaranteed to win (consider that we will eventually get to the point where we are guaranteed enough Coins per run for at least one 1st Age - high ACPs will keep getting reset to 0).

The raison d'etre of this system is to give everyone a chance on every roll, but to give a greater chance to those who have put in most effort. DKP systems, regular SK systems, typically only give you anything if you're at, or near, the top of the tree. For new players, that can be incredibly dispiriting & demoralising. This is not what RRU is about! So we're trying to find a way to give everyone a chance all the time, without leaving our unlucky hard workers banging their heads into their keybords in utter frustration! ;)

6. Penalties are new to RRU. Get used to them. They are a feature of all other systems & they are here to stay. If we are friendly & co-operative, then we have to have some way of showing meaningful disapproval towards those individuals who do not behave with due consideration toward the group & the group ethos.


6.1. The chosen multiple is 100 because it gives Raid Leaders more flexibility to penalise people for infractions. A player could be fined

a portion of the multiplier for a single roll or a whole instance (being fined 10 out of 100 is more meaningful than 1 out of 10, since /roll(100) effectively displays what would otherwise be an invisible decimal point)
ACP either temporarily (single roll / instance) or "permanently" (i.e. losing 5 ACP will affect a player until ACP resets on a win).
7. ACP will be awarded for:

Signing on for a raid
Being assigned as a Reserve
Participating in a raid
Gathering Barter Coins
Discretionary RL awards
ACPs may be deducted for:

Being late
Failing to turn up at all
Not being properly traited, radianced, equipped, etc
Breaking TS discipline
Failing to do as you are told
Discretionary RL deductions (i.e. anything not already covered!)
Attendance bonuses require you to be online at the start time and to make yourself known to the Raid Leader. Sticking your name down is not good enough - even if you are not selected for the raid, BE THERE or no points. The Raid Leader will not call a roll. You only have to keep track of up to 7 alts; they have to keep track of (up to 7 alts) x (11+ players), & they've enough on their plate already. If you are late, if you are not on an alt the RL is expecting, if you haven't got enough food, your radiance kit is in the vault, your trait set is wrong... That's your fault, not the RL's; you're slowing the raid down - expect to be penalised for it.

As to discretionary rewards... In one of the Instances, I remember when Tiermond the Burglar soloed General Whats-his-name, plus adds, down from about 22K, the rest of the group having been valiantly stiffed. So we did get the gem! I think exceptional play like that deserves recognition, don't you? One example of a discretionary...

7.1. {Experimental} In order to provide a small boost to the low end of the ACP "curve", particularly for players new to RRU, the following will operate with regard to ACP acquistion. This may be subject to future change.


If you have less than 10 ACP when a raid is posted:

+2 ACP for sign up (NB: Remember this means you are online & ready at start time)
+1 ACP if you are an assigned Reserve (this means you are a first choice if someone else fails to show)
+3 ACP for participating in the raid at any point.
If you have 10+ ACP when a raid is posted, +1 ACP for each clause above.
+1 ACP for each Coin gained when you are in the raid (doesn't matter if you're dead, being DC'ed for the whole fight is another matter... ;)).

Explanatory: Yes, a participating Reserve gets 6 points, where a Chosen will only get 5. We want you to take being a Reserve seriously. If you are a Chosen, you will be accumulating extra points from Coins. Whilst you might think someone's getting a free bonus here, it does mean that when someone infrequently chosen does get a run, they'd have a bit more of a rolling chance than they might otherwise. Remember RRU is about trying to give everyone a fair (not equal; fair!) chance. If your ACP resets to zero, you too benefit from that little starting bonus.

8. Your ACP multiplier for the raid is taken at the start i.e. it will include your attendance bonuses. It will not be re-totalled until the raid is over, except that you will be zeroed if you win an ACP roll. This reduces the record keeping for a RL (no running tally of Coins won to keep track of). For example if we win 12 Coins during a run (assuming there were no leftovers from previous runs) the person who wins the roll that takes place after the 6th then resets, thereafter rolls 0 x 100 (so can't participate in the second roll), but finishes the raid back on 6 ACP (because they helped win a further 6 coins).

9. PUGs also deserve a fair chance. They cannot accumulate ACPs. Therefore the RL will assign them a random number of ACP. Broadly speaking, this means giving them a fair chance of beating some of the individuals in the raid, whilst leaving it most likely that an RRU member / recruit will actually be the winner. The number of ACP will vary, depending on the current ACP spread. Ideally, once a roll is done, a PUG ought to be about 7th - 8th in the list, but random variation will always give them a chance of being lower, or higher, even to the extent of winning. Why not? They helped too!

[Raedwulf]

New Clauses to the General Rules (second post):

6 (Amendment). ACP will be halved (rounded down) by a winning roll.

7. ACP is capped at a maximum of 40, giving you a /roll 4000.

Explanatory: Nimrodel's are not dropping with anything like the expected frequency. It is not uncommon to clear 3 or 4 bosses and not get a single one. I have been told that drops are biased toward the last two bosses, which we have not yet killed. As a consequence, ACP are not being reset with anything like the expected frequency, hence the modifications given here.