The Vile Maw 3.0

[bothorn]

Updated somewhat for Version 3.0

Important stuff

What to bring, well lots of stuff really. Ideally you should carry no less than 5 +30 hope tokens, a few of each kind of scroll (if you cant afford or craft these, see "craftsmen of raid'r'us") Good food i.e Racks of lamb, Tea and Lamb and Mushroom soup, and stacks of morale and power potions and when I say stacks I mean 15 or more of each.

Before we begin it's best to sort out a few things in your games options, firstly either lower your overall graphics settings to medium or less, OR turn off "Post processing effects" under the advance graphics options so that you can see where the water is deep and where its shallow, this helps alot during the final stage when knowing where the sunken structure lies, secondly adjust your audio settings, things like music and ambient noise only interfere with your ability to hear the raid leader talking, combat noises should be turned down as well altho I prefer to have them set very very low rather than off completely.

Teamspeak, yes we all have it but if it works is another matter. If your having problems understanding or hearing the raid leader talking its better to make this known sooner rather than later, as for your own mics its good to have one set up and working and it's good to use it as well when the need arises but please remember that if everyone starts blurting out "jimmy jones is dangling" then it's lost in a jumble and not much help to anyone so think before you say and keep it to a minimum if possible.

Phase 1

1. Gather up in the center beyond the gate.
2. Tank goes in to activate, group moves left together across the room stopping on the left side avoiding his initial wave attack.
3. Two tentacles spawn, we move back and begin dps on the left hand one keeping close to each other, tank aggros the right.
4. Watcher will Shake with anger, we move right together as one, then back in to the center continue dps.
5. Once left hand tentacle is dead begin dps on the right hand tentacle, lining up again close together.
6. Someone sturdy jumps into the deep water (not the guardian) so as to be dangled and freed to aviod this happening to anyone else as we mover out into the water.

Things to remember during this phase:-

Fellowship maneuvers can be dangerous unless it happens very soon after the watcher fires his wave attack it's best to ignore them.
Try to avoid attacks with long animations in the same way, i.e swiftbow, because you may be unable to move and therefore die.
When both tentacles are dead the watcher will reach up and pull the bridge over his head down hitting everyone for around 2k damage, so if your low drink a pot!

Phase 2

1. Everyone should now swim out to the broken bridge that spans the gap between the two Massive tentacles taking care to avoid the deadly patrolling tentacles and freeing anyone that happens to get dangled AFTER the rest make it to the bridge.
2. A tank pick up the RIGHT side massive tentacle and turns it away from the group and the rest of the raid attacks the other killing it as quickly as possible.
3. The remaining tentacle should then be taken down to around 5k morale at which point the raid gather close together on the sunken bridge near where the left side massive tentacle was.
4. One of the hunter dps's the remaining massive tentacle down to under 1k morale then stops.
5.The dangling tentacles are on a timer of one per minute so we wait for it before finishing the remaining massive tentacle (provided the person dangled isnt a minstrel or the main tank) giving you a larger window before it happens again.



Phase 3

1. When ready the remaining massive tentacle is killed by the ranged dps and we get the spawn of 12 small tentacles, as this happens everyone except the champs should break from the group and move out of range, the captains can use harms way/last stand if nessisary and even shield of the dunadain on one of the champs.
2. Champs AoE them down quickly (traited deathstorm is essential for this) and both loremasters contribute with Ents go to War and Lightning storm. The non Ancient Master LM can apply firelore to these as well as they spawn to help manage there damage output.
3. The designated watcher tank moves into position so that he can grab the watcher as soon as he shows up and turn him away from the rest of the raid when he pop's up roughly 20 seconds after the last massive tentacle was killed off.
4. As the watcher returns he is accompanied by the two "Shivering" tentacles (the healing ones) and the hunter's/warden need to aggro each one from range, if there aggro is within melee range they will AoE damaging more of the group and puttin unessissary stress on the healers. While this is happening the Guardian begins to work aggro on the watcher himself.
4. Now when the watcher pops up you have a small window before the cycle of corruption removal begins it is accompanied with an on screen message "The Watcher Becomes Enraged", there are 2 kinds a melee damage bonus (coloured REDremovable) and a ranged damage bonus (BLUEnot removable) ideally he should never get the chance to stack more than 2 melee corruption during the whole fight so it's extremely important to sort out who is controlling the people that can deal with these.
5. Once the hunter/wardens are satisfied with there aggro both tentacles are taken down to around 5k each at which point we take the short oppertunity to get everyone in good shape before beginning the killing cycle of healing tentacles.
6. During the entire fight the watcher should be heavily debuffed, the Ancient craft traited loremaster must apply Firelore constantly asking the other loremaster to back him up if resisted , traited disable by burgs is a must as well. Improved "See all ends" to stop him critting are very very usefull, the healing tentacle killing rotation is exactly the same as before...

Kill right Tentacle, switch to left Tentacle and take it down to 5k
Break
Right Tentacle respawns, Kill left Tentacle, switch to right tentacle and take it down to 5k
Break
Left Tentacle respawns, Kill right Tentacle, switch to left Tentacle and take it down to 5k

The Watcher's Special Attacks
The big squid has some new tricks during his final phase and there both significant enough to mention.

Terror of the deep:
This is a full AoE attack that is occompanied by an on white on screen message just like the scream from phase one is, this attack is very damaging, upwards 2.5k moral to anyone caught in it and delivers a huge knockback that can and probably will cause alot of problems BUT it can be avoided, the sunken structure that surrounds the watchers main body (this includes the broken bridge) is a safe haven and provided you get on that you will avoid the attack, hobbits and dwarfs may still appear to swim when over this but they as just as safe.

Crushing Devastation:
This attack is an Aoe effect that hits for roughly 500-1000 morale, it has no induction and cant be stopped or avoided but so long as he dosent have more than 1 melee damage corruption on him and he's properly debuffed it can be healed threw which brings me to....

The Watcher and his Corruptions
Ok so I mentioned briefly about how the watcher has a melee and ranged damage corruption and how the melee is the only one that concerns us, before the fight begins we will have to arrange a sutiable system to avoid him stacking these up, along with the guardian who constantly applying his own corruption removal while tanking.
Occasionaly threw misses and badly timed dangles the corruptions will stack , it's on these occasions that the LM, RK and even Burgs must reserve there corruption skills for. Obviously if you all use them together its a waste so coordinating is a must with this otherwise problems can occur i.e death :)

Class Specifics

This section just gives a little info on class roles within the raid and how to set yourself up for the job,


Most definetly be traited for deathstorm.
Below is a suggested pattern of attack.
Adamant
Raging Blades
Battle Frenzy (5 pip version)
Deathstorm
Raging Blades
Bladestorm
Cleave
Sound the Attack
Raging Blades

As suggested by Iorelin, in the transition to phase 3 the champs should use Fighting Dirty to get +25% AoE damage on the first hit..

Traited for Hands of Healing, with Two yellow traits Defiance being one for sure, this also benifits the group as the Two yellow trait bonus allows you to switch your mark instantly rather than waiting for 10seconds.

One will be traited Ancient master the other a good mix altho deep-lore helps, the Ancient craft Loremaster job is simply to debuff, power share and remove corruptions when asked, the other LM can contribute to dps, back up on resists and share power as required

I would recommend Four Blue traits, Gracefull demeanor, Focused preformance, Life singer and Silver tounge. On top of those minstrels prefrence applys but I like smooth voice and the one that extends the chance to perform the next tier ballad as it also increases the duration for each +3% healing buff you gain from tiering up ballads (will get the name of it soon lol)
Ofcourse Rally and Fellowships heart are a must.

test

test

One of your most important jobs is to ensure that the watcher is permanently under the effect of your Traited Disable aside that keep placing your Reveal weakness and Counter defence on which ever healing tentacle we are dps'ing at the time and try to launch FSM's via exposed throat, Save your Main FSM launching skills for releasing the tank if he becomes dangled. Carrying Bags of marbles adds another option to you for doin as well.

emm zap zap

test
Work in progress

[bothorn]

Did a bit of editing, it's not complete but its definetly more relevent than it was, also added some info to the class specific at the bottom but not all, cheers.

[Hirion]

Looks cool. And a brushed up guide might be a step in sorting out the last few kinks in the machinery. A few comments.


Might be an idea to mention the bit about Low graphix/Post Processing Effects in the start of the guide.


Lately I havent needed LS/IHW during the transition to Phase 3. Of course it is a good idea to have you fingers hover over it in case, but after Book VIII it's been completely unecessary. Captains however should time a couple of skills for that transition, keeping an eye for the duration of these. My schedule of events has been: making a champion Shield-Brother. Using War-Cry as the large tentacle is killed, then To Arms as the small tentacles appear and finally only then Shield of the Dunedain (it has a short duration and since the tentacles will not be homed on the champion for the first few seconds it's better to push it back in the qeue. Then as tentacles die use Rallying Cry, Inspire, and Strenght of Will to support the healing - and have LS/IHW ready as backup.


Maybe add something about the division of responsibilities on who stays on the healing tentacles and who turns to free the danglers. It seems the main issue that we balance both freeing people and keeping damage fast enough on the tentacles/Watcher. And that the ranged/healers/supporters should stand close together in this phase to have more speed and ease in finding and freeing the dangling.


And adding the role of burglars as instant freers of important classes dangling (such as guard or healers) by the use of FM-starters).

[Notiane]

On the Loremastrer, I would go as far as having the second LM go full MoNF (dps trait line), his AoE damage is second only to champs, his single target dps (with the right legacies) may even surpass a hunters

[Iorielin]

Really nice guide, some suggestions though. Right before killing of the strangleing one in the transition to phase 3 the champs should use Fighting Dirty to get +25% AoE damage on the first hit. And if you are strugeling minstrels Fellowships Heart might be a solution to pop just before they spawn.

Burglars: Must have traits - Appraising Eye, Disabling Attack, Opportunist and Exposed Throat. I also have Quite a Snag equipted (Because I have a LI with 28sec CD on it), but thats not needed, it only helps a little. Having 4 MM traits to get the increased trick duration in Mischief makes maintenace easier.

In Phase one you put RW and CD on the tentacle you are DPSing, then do the same to the other one. Phase 2, same thing, RW and CD on the tentacle you are DPSing. Phase 3 put and keep Disable on The Watcher at all times. Put RW and CD on the tentacle you are DPSing and put Quite a Snag on the watcher whenever you can. Try to pop CJs with Exposed Throat as often as you can. When Strangeling comes put CD on them, and if its a minstrel dangling you might have to consider using Exploit Opening to free them. If a burst removal of corruption is needed you have to use Starling Twist on The Watcher, but thats rarely needed anymore.

[bothorn]

Thanks for the suggestions folks, most of it will find its way into this heh. About the burg stuff tho, I was under the impression after doin alll these turtle runs that one burg cant put RW and CD on a target at the same time or was I miss lead?

[Derigar/Tarinas]

You can put RW and any one trick on a target as a burg, so usually for the offense you use RW and CD. Made a few notes though on what i thought was useful stuff to know


Minstrels

4 traits in PoS isn't of much note in fights that don't focus around common damage. I think the full 1600 armour bonus is roughly a 2% increase to acid defense, without going 4 deep you end up with about a 1% increase so really its a very minor effect. As for traits, Graceful demeanor(res trait) and to a slightly lesser extent Silver tongue(20% less song CD) are both very important for reducing time spent waiting for CD's inbetween attempts (of course graceful demeanor also has the faster rally! induction).

Graceful demeanor (res trait)
Silver tongue (song CD trait)

These two cut down on time spent waiting inbetween fights

Life singer (-10% healing power cost)
Focused Performance (decreased inductions)

Fairly obvious why these ones are worth it. Subtle movements (decreased threat) isn't usually one i bother with much these days - if you get aggro its usually because the tank has gone down and the trait doesn't impact this much.

Apart from that, the rest are more up the individual minstrel, but i consider these the core 4 traits for the watcher, also a weapon with triumphant spirit and Rally CD's is highly recommended, but understandably not always possible with the LI lottery.


For the fight itself, only thing to note is that triumphant spirit during the stage 3 transition is easily enough to get everyone up to full without needing to burn FH.



Burglars


As for burglars, i'd say traited disable is a must as it lowers melee damage output by roughly 45% which is a godsend for a minstrel ehaling the designated tank, would also recommend traiting counter defence (which should be on both phase 3 tentacles at all times) and reveal weakness too. Going at least three deep in the mischief-maker (yellow) line for the extended trick bonus is going to help (not essential, but then again the traits themselves are so useful for the raid that you should have 3 from this line anyway). Preferebly using a small snag CD weapon, go 5 deep in the yellow line to make managing tricks as simple as possible and making it as easy as possible to keep that +13% incoming damage debuff on the tentacles (combined with captain's mark it all adds up to some serious increased damage). Two burglars would be my preference for this fight, just to really cripple the watcher's damage output.

[Iorielin]

would also recommend traiting counter defence (which should be on both phase 3 tentacles at all times) and reveal weakness too.
I dont see the point in having CD on both tentacles all the time as you are only DPSing one at the time, unless you guys do DPS both at the same time ofc. But if you were to debuff both tentacles I suggest using Dust on the one being tanked, and CD on the one being killed. And RW can only be assigned to one target.

Preferebly using a small snag CD weapon, go 5 deep in the yellow line to make managing tricks as simple as possible and making it as easy as possible to keep that +13% incoming damage debuff on the tentacles
This is an option, but I prefer to put Quite a Snag on the watcher for the +10% attack duration on top of Disables +20%. Maybe put one burg on the watcher and the other on the tentacles is the best solution due to diminishing return on stacks.

[Derigar/Tarinas]

I dont see the point in having CD on both tentacles all the time as you are only DPSing one at the time, unless you guys do DPS both at the same time ofc. But if you were to debuff both tentacles I suggest using Dust on the one being tanked, and CD on the one being killed. And RW can only be assigned to one target.

Only reason i mentioned this is because if you intend to release the tank quickly from watcher dangles, you'll probably want to keep yourself close by - assuming you're somewhat deep in the MM line, the extended trick duration just makes more sense to run over, pop it on both, then run back to disable/support the guardian.

This is an option, but I prefer to put Quite a Snag on the watcher for the +10% attack duration on top of Disables +20%. Maybe put one burg on the watcher and the other on the tentacles is the best solution due to diminishing return on stacks.

Obviously a matter of opinion, both arguments ahve their merits. As for diminishing returns, i'm not quite sure what the state of burglar diminishing returns is to be honest. I know there isn't any with reveal weakness, but suspect the tricks are not quite so fortunate.

If we're talking about doubling up on burglars, then really i'd be suggesting a gambler burglar who can drop those incredibly potent tier 6 debuffing gambles on the watcher, just before he unleashes his big attacks, as theres nothing quite like the +20% miss chance, +60% attack duration, -50% attack damage that disable and the gamble give for outright destroying his most powerful attack (the single attack that has wiped us every single time we've made it to stage 3). While cooldown might be an issue with this (probably given clever retort is on a CD of something like 1:30 at best) and it would require some effort to maintain, its definately something worth considering at least.

[Tiermond]

I thought there was diminshing returns on reveal weakness brought in about 18 months or so back as a result of creeps complaining about the burg packs in the moors. Not sure if it has changed since Moria though but unless your going in with more than 3 burgs probably wouldn't notice the DR. Tricks do have DR on them not sure to what extent but again unless trying an all burg raid it wouldn't be an issue.
Like the idea of trying a second gambler burglar would be very interesting, did try going into the watcher 1.0 once, gambler traited and got lots of immunities when trying to apply gambles but this might have changed since.

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Yeah, i figure a lot of the issues you mentioned with gambler were likely due to the rediculous resist rating at the start of moria, which would have been made exponentially worse by fighting an above level arch-nemesis enemy. I'm certain that there are no diminishing returns on reveal weakness (rumours of it capping with ten burglars is another issue, irrelevant for this discussion ;)). Diminishing returns on tricks i think follows a similiar scheme to the fellowship XP splitting and IXP, i'd imagine something like this: your contribution = skillEffect*(1.2/n) where n>1. So using DiTE as an example, you'd get something like 20% for one, 32% for two, 40% for three, 46% for four, etc, but thats just a guess based on thier other mechanics and how lazy their maths seems to be ;)

[Notiane]

Noti's thoughts on The Vile Maw,

Basically an extended Vile Maw Loremaster guide:
One lore master needs to be 5 + Capstone AM (DL, ISoP:C, P&W, tSoFL, tSoWL) a second LM has choices. I would go all out MoNF with DL and P&W on the side, but Healer, LoH, tSoFL can also help a lot. If only we could slot more traits...
Onto the fight itself, following the above guide:

Phase 1,
1.
2.
3. SoP:C and Fire lore on the left tentacle, SoP:C and Wind lore on the right (AM only, other stick to dps) Pet debuffs (Benediction of the Raven, Shatter Arms (bear skill) help too.
4. keep up the buffs
5. as before, but Fire lore on left over tentacle
6.

Phase 2,
1.
2. Debuff as in previous phase, AM's Fire lore on the one being killed, Wind lore on the other.
3. Towards the end of this fight, check ALL power bars and decide to share some early.
4. You got all the time you need to fill up your own blue bar. Keeping Wind lore and SoP:C up aren't huge factors here, but it does help.
5.

Phase 3,
1. the very second the tentacle drops, run! You don't want those spawns hitting you.
2. see original guide!! Decide between the loremasters who uses Ancient Craft+Lightning Storm first (so you don't cancel each others). A trick here is to have the dps LM start with Fire lore, AC, LS, and the AM LM with GoW, Tar, EgtW.
3.
4. AM awaits Watcher spawn, then debuffs it with Fire Lore, SoP:C, SoP:SAE (capstone), and debuff the right tentacle SoP:C and Wind lore. Especially the Watcher should be debuffed as suchs for the rest of the fight. Coruption removal when tanks asks for it
5. AM debuff, share power, pass a few heals if needed (I usually save my heals for main tank and minstrels, but if my pet is still around I try to keep it up as well) DPS does dps, a bit of power, a bit of healing, fire lore on watcher if AM's gets resisted.
6. See the original guide!!

Phase 4,
1. complain there's never any Lore master items in the loot.
2. out roll everyone on the Helm and Shoulder coins untill you get the +10% extra fire damage

[Raukothaurondir]

Firstly thanks for run, was enjoyable.
Basically you use the same start as we do with 1 or 2 minor changes which you may or may not want to take on board.

First thing is when we have killed the 1st tentacle, avoided his roar and moved across to the 2nd tentacle, we completely ignore the 2 small tentacles which spawn and kill the big tentacle.
When the watcher is pulling down the bridge we usually have the other 2 small tentacles killed. This way we avoid a secondary roar where we all have to move out of his aoe and it also means no unnecessary deaths from lag, rooted to floor by skills, etc.
Those 2 small tentacles are nearly 7k health each, so losing a lot of dps on them if killed first and on one of the runs I'm sure we had both down and big tentacle also before he had the chance to roar 2nd time, so its quite easy to get big one down first within that time period.

Second thing is the small strangling tentacles on the 1 min timer. On kin runs whenever anyone is dangled the whole raid gets him/her down as quickly as possible (exception of tank which ranged do), with the whole raid on it the tentacle goes down in seconds. As when someone is dangled they get second DOT so sooner they are down the less healing needed on them, also it means champs/melee will not get aggro on big healing tentacles as they will be helping to free people.
For example the last runs there, Runy was dangled a few times which left me, 1 dps traited LM and 1 debuffing LM to free her while melee grabbed aggro on tentacle causing it to aoe them all = more healing required.
In fact we do it other way where the hunters/ranged ignore strangling tentacles (except tank ofc) and concentrate on tanking big tentacles, which leaves melee responsible for getting dangled people down on the bridge. This way aggro is sure to be on hunters and raid takes no unnecessary aoe damage from big healing tentacles.

Looking forward to next weeks runs.

[Hirion]

Rauk, thank you for you good advice. Much appreciated.

First thing is when we have killed the 1st tentacle, avoided his roar and moved across to the 2nd tentacle, we completely ignore the 2 small tentacles which spawn and kill the big tentacle.
I'll take this into consideration when next we go. I have noticed that we've had plenty time, but I think we've focused on the smaller ones first as a safety precaution - if dps is not fast enough on the bigger one we would leave one person strangling at the mercy of the next shout. However we seem to be fully on top of the First Phase on the shore already so no reason not to push it further.

Second thing is the small strangling tentacles on the 1 min timer. On kin runs whenever anyone is dangled the whole raid gets him/her down as quickly as possible (exception of tank which ranged do), with the whole raid on it the tentacle goes down in seconds.
I'm very open to try this out - also to improve, as you mentioned, the threat of the hunters on the main tentacles. I've payed less attention on the need for ranged tanking of the two main tentacles, as we didn't do it the time we did take down the Watcher, but I've realised that the massive tentacles have an added feature when tanked in melee; they occasionally do knockbacks - and as we know, landing on the shore will add more small dangling tentacles to the cycle than the regular ones every minute.

Looking forward to next weeks runs.
Me too! Me too! And to test out these small tweaks. Tomorrow then...

Been happy with the last runs, even with not getting the Watcher down last time - if anything they have trained more people to the basics of this fight. And the more we've done it the less knackered have I become with the fight even. Strange stuff. 8-)

[Hirion]

Also the Risen Kinship on [EN] Eldar has put together this highly useful video (http://www.bryzi.net/risen/index.php?view=article&catid=40%3Atactics&id=97%3Athe-watcher-in-the-water-the-vile-maw-30&option=com_content&Itemid=75)on the Watcher fight. Now this is not our guide, and there are small differences here and there, but there is also a lot of similarities, and I suggest all to have a peek - especially if all new to the Vile Maw to get an idea of the basic elements to the fight.

[Grimbos]

small note on Champion bit:

in the third phase, if you position yourself between the healing tentacle you're dps-ing and the watcher, your AoE skills will reach the Watcher as well. Thanks to Notiane for pointing this out, since I was usually spamming my ST skills to kill the tentacles, completely disregarding the glorious SHING-SHING!!!

It could also helps if an emergency corruption removal is required as the watcher will be just one tab away from a feral strike, without having you to move a lot (although Feral strikes is far from a reliable way of removing corruptions, due to the low 25% chance of removal per strike).

[Hirion]

Yeah very good point Grimbos. And the same goes for much of the positioning when having both danglers and massive tentacles about. The important bit of course, is never to accidentally killing one of the large tentacles, so that both are down at the same time.

I'm guessing I should some day take the time to make this document alive again, adding some of the pointers above to Bothorn's guide.

[Iasselm]

I have a suggestion. When the tentacles pop up at the third phase we usually kill the left one and then take the right to 5/10k. What about we take the left tentacle to 5/10k first, then switch to the right one and kill the right one. This way we have more time to focus on the watcher. Usually a new tentacle pops when we're like 10 seconds on the watcher, but if we decide to kill the right one then we can focus on watcher itself longer, making the fight go a bit faster.

[Anaeth]

I have a suggestion. When the tentacles pop up at the third phase we usually kill the left one and then take the right to 5/10k. What about we take the left tentacle to 5/10k first, then switch to the right one and kill the right one. This way we have more time to focus on the watcher. Usually a new tentacle pops when we're like 10 seconds on the watcher, but if we decide to kill the right one then we can focus on watcher itself longer, making the fight go a bit faster.

I must have got a brainfreeze. I fail to see how this makes us save time. Either way you describe kills one and lower one down to 10k, so the dpstime on healingtentacles as I see it, is the same.

[Rhyaehar]

Not quite. Killing one will start the respawn cycle. So if you get one down to the near-death stage, kill the other, you will have longer to DPS the Watcher.

[Anaeth]

Aha, now a bulb worked up there. Thanks :D

[Dellannan]

I think we have talked about this earlier. The reason for us to kill one as fast as possible is that the damage the watcher does on one of his special attack is influenced on how many tentacles that is up. So if both are up, more damage is up, and we will have more stress in the beginning of the 3rd phase.

And this time limit will be there during the rest of phase 3, so we might as well get used to it at once, unless I have misunderstood something.

[bothorn]

With two healing tentacles up you get hit more often by his AoE attack, the one you cant avoid "Crushing Devastation" is its name I think, anyhoo as Rhy said a few posts back once you drop one you start the cycle so if anything goes wrong your more likley to suffer for it, in that early part of the last phase provided you kill the 12 nice and quick you have loads of time to get sorted and no corruptions to worry about.

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Yep, thats the one. Two tentacles up equals a double crushing devastation, which from a minstrels point of view is the thing that wipes raids fastest.

[bothorn]

That and letting a melee class get aggro of a healing tentacle NOT GOOD if it happens for whatever reason hunters dangled busy killing tentacles on shore from some knockback misshap (these things happen) then whoever it is has to have the savvy to notice he has aggro and move to range otherwise your gettting a whole lot more dmg on the raid, dont let that happen !!!!!

[Hirion]

Concerning the Shaking Tentacles in phase 3.

I am aware that bringing one to 10 first and then killing the other would speed things up. Doing as we are now, killing one completely, then bringing the other to 10k does leave us less time on the Watcher at first just as his self heal will often be up the first time we get to target him (which is why I often have to tell people not to waste a lot of energy when we get to him on the first cleaning cycle finding that he has his heal up).

I know what we are doing is slower, but we are a mottly crew, never the same people, and often having new-timers with us. To me, getting one down fast to reduce the damage on the full raid feels a safer, even if slower, approach. The nature of our raids I prefer it that way.

However, we have once or twice tried the other approach and it is in the back of my mind. Having an eye to the morale across the raid I usually assess it as we are halfway through the first tentacle and if it looks good, and if I know the raid to be pretty solid, I will call out to stop at 10k to swap to the other.

¤¤o¤¤

On a different note - it is long overdue to update this guide and I hope to get it done today even No disrespect to Bothorn's original work, on which I will draw, but the fact is that we have changed a few things along the way and I want the guide to be up to date for newcomers reflecting how we do the fight and how I run it as RL.