Testing the water. Fri 11th 7pm sharp!!

[bothorn]

So I was think of going ahead and having a try at the new "improved" watcher this friday at 7pm, I have a fair idea of what to expect and my brain is formulating advanced new tacti...emm yea :p, so anyhoo if you would like to join me feel free to stick your name down.

There no gurantee of a hope buff for this so I'd prefer people with 6/6 set only as this will be a rough fight and new tactics will be tested which always takes time to settle so please be prepared to die for the cause :)

Things to bring;- 30min hope tokens
Stacks of morale/power pots
Combat/Warding scrolls
Food

I'll make a proper sign up sheet soon, as with before will be first come first served within reasonable limits, thanks and hope to see you there.

Bold = In Raid
Italic = Reserve

Burglars
Tiermond (Shoulders, BRG/CHM)

Captains
Evelynn (Shoulders, CPT/HNT)

Champions
Lethrian (?, CHM/MNS)
Grammur (Shoulders, CHM/WRD)
Calabam (?, CHM)
Denamir (n/a)

Guardians
Giladren (Shoulders, GRD)
Skelsamu (Shoulders, GRD)

Hunters
Alamar (Helm, HNT/CPT)

Loremasters
Angrenel (Helm, LRM/GDN)
Notiane (Helm, LRM/CPT)

Minstrels
Tarinas (?, MNS/BRG)
Kunigunde (?, LRM/MNS)

Rune-Keeper
Feylanna (Helm, RK/HNT)

Wardens
Rhyaewald (Shoulders [120], WRD/HNT)

[Legadin]

I'll be glad to join and give it a go. Lethrian (champ lv 60) primary and Minstrel Secondary for the 1st age drop. Item preference Helm

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Been a few days since i've been hit hard by a repair bill.

Count me in - Minstrel primary, burg secondary if i manage to get him up a few levels by then

[Raedwulf]

My brain is cream cheese!

:P

Angrenel. Can sub to Raed if required. LM / GDN primary / secondary.

[Tiermond]

Count me in, burg primary, champ secondary and roll for shoulders.

[Joerg]

Evelynn reporting. Captain primary, hunter secondary.

[Rhyaehar]

Rhyaewald (WDN) preferred

If need be, I can take hunter, but you know how I feel about that.

[Notiane]

Notiane ready for what ever awaits. Loremaster weapon, Captain second, although I'm sure that this means LM only :p I'll be trying to get my captain some radiance pieces, for flexability, but I doubt he'll be 6/6 in time

[Silirien]

Fey, RNK.
Just like Rhy, if needed I can take my HNT. but you know how I feel about it... Besides I'm pretty confident RNK deals more dmg now.

[Kunigunde]

Whoohaaa Runekeeper on a killing Spree! Go Sil, Go. LM comes as a close second with all thos Tactical buffs :)
Kuni here and Kuni comes... youve got your second MNS, as Notiane sure wants his royalties as the only LM :)
Primary preferences LM weapon then MNS weapon
if neither drops, can i roll on the radiance gear? (what are the loot rules ATM)?

[Giladren]

Gil-guard- just guard gear

[Grammur]

Grammur, Champion, signing up. If only to see if the nerf is as bad as feared. Primary champ, secondary warden.

[Raedwulf]

as Notiane sure wants his royalties as the only LM :)
Primary preferences LM weapon then MNS weapon
if neither drops, can i roll on the radiance gear? (what are the loot rules ATM)?

Noti is strictly No.2 LM! :P

The rules at the moment are that you can roll on your primary choice if that comes out of the chest. If your secondary comes out you can roll on that only if there are no primary rollers for that class. You can only win one item per run. At the moment, Bothorn is dishing out the 1st Age first, which means that if you win that, you can't roll on a coin.

Bothorn - you haven't asked for coin nominations if they come out one of each. Are you going to? (I can only roll on the helm in any case).

[Abarax]

I should be down if I hit 60 and get remaining radiance gear by then (we still need that right?)

Or...if the local internet exchanges actually come back up!

[bothorn]

I should be down if I hit 60 and get remaining radiance gear by then (we still need that right?)

Or...if the local internet exchanges actually come back up!

aye ab still need radiance.

also if anyone can grab a lock for balrog or summit lemme know , would be nice to have anyhoo

[skelsamu]

sure thing. if needed. /shoulders roll exept there a guards first age

[calabam]

can do , plus already had a crack at it last night and kinda know the new tacs
champ weapon ,coin - head - although it looks like i am to late for the group anywaz

[bothorn]

Aye plz folks along with your weapon nominations pick a coin head or shoulder.

[Rhyaehar]

Done it for you. In brackets behind name is the armour roll, then weapon preference.

[Legadin]

I dont have either the helm or shoulers so would like to roll for either if they come up. Don't know if that is possible though. I think that those that have neither should be permitted to roll on whatever comes up limited to 1 roll in any case.
Also this seems to be a nice guide for the the Watcher 2.0. http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Watcher_Walkthrough But we will have Bothorn lead so will always follow his directions dont let this guide confuse you.

[Notiane]

I would vote to have anyone who already has their first watcher coin (that'd be me, amongst a few others) forfeit their rolls, to spread the joy, sort of. So I will only roll for 1st age weapon (should LM staff or book drop) and Raed, what can I say... Are you sure that's not your insecurity speaking?

[Raedwulf]

No, what you can say is "Yes, you're quite right!" :P

I dont have either the helm or shoulers so would like to roll for either if they come up. Don't know if that is possible though. I think that those that have neither should be permitted to roll on whatever comes up limited to 1 roll in any case.

No it isn't possible. This is not how we do things. Consider The Rift - there were 7 different gems available. Why should X, who has none of them, be able to roll & keep rolling until they win something? Especially when, perhaps, on one of those rolls he then proceeds to beat Y who only needs one more gem to complete the set?

Or to take The Watcher... I already have the shoulders. I already have at least 2 competitors for an LM item. There is only a 1/9 chance of an LM item dropping, & there may remain a significant chance of 2 shoulders gems dropping. Therefore, there is already a significant chance of there simply being no loot available for me to roll on. Now you're telling me that if different coins drop, you expect to be able to roll on both? How is that fair on me? I did just as much as you did to take him down on a given run, but you get more chances to win? Nuh-uh! That is precisely why RRU loot rules aren't designed that way.

I, for one, will be rolling if a helm gem is available (& I haven't already won a 1st Age, which seems unlikely). I can see no good reason why I shouldn't.

[Denamir]

Denamir - champion (no loot)

[Joerg]

May I inquire why Rhy has a 120 roll again for this run?


[...]
Wardens
Rhyaewald (Shoulders [120], WRD/HNT)

[Rhyaehar]

You may. This is a snippet from the topic discussing the Watcher loot rules:

As to bonus, we've already discussed it, just not agreed anything. My vote is for +30 only if you pass on all coin rolls in the instance, stackable a maximum of 5 times. You maintain that bonus until you win, & it only applies to coins, not LI's.
Now, the bonus I was given at the time was only 20 (snif), but I didn't win any coin, thus my bonus stays.

[Joerg]

Has this rule been posted officially somewhere?

[Rhyaehar]

Not yet. What exactly is the problem Joerg?

[Silirien]

Uhm, I do have a problem here, I'd like this to be discussed somewhere else and, if possible, I'd also like to remove those posts.

[Legadin]

No, what you can say is "Yes, you're quite right!" :P

Or to take The Watcher... I already have the shoulders. I already have at least 2 competitors for an LM item. There is only a 1/9 chance of an LM item dropping, & there may remain a significant chance of 2 shoulders gems dropping. Therefore, there is already a significant chance of there simply being no loot available for me to roll on. Now you're telling me that if different coins drop, you expect to be able to roll on both? How is that fair on me? I did just as much as you did to take him down on a given run, but you get more chances to win? Nuh-uh! That is precisely why RRU loot rules aren't designed that way.

I
I think I did not express myself clearly. I did not imply that anyone should get to roll twice for the coins in case both a shoulder and a helm coin come up. What I was saying is that considering I need both coins I should be allowed to roll for either ONE of them and just one in the case 2 of the same come up. In other words if I say that I prefer the shoulders coin and 2 helm coins come up, I basically lose out on both rolls whereas whover chose to roll on the helm coin has a double chance of winning it. Again I am for the rule to only get to roll on one item. All I am asking is if I need both I not be limited to rolling only for the shoulder coin if 2 helm coins come up.

[Raedwulf]

Ah. Clarification: If two of the same coin come out, coin nominations are discarded and anyone that is eligible to roll (e.g. hasn't already had that coin, hasn't already won a 1st Age that run, etc) may do so. We do however need to have nominations made in advance of any rolling for reasons which should be obvious, and that means before the raid starts, since the Raid Leader is not going to want the headache of trying to sort it out after victory!

Sorry, I thought this had already been stated! ;)

[calabam]

Just a quick question are all raids first come first in the line - up or does it vary?

[Giladren]

Helm

[Derigar/Tarinas]

Just a quick question are all raids first come first in the line - up or does it vary?

Typically first come first serve, only exception really is ensuring we have a balanced group, so if you're the 4th person to sign up, but all the previous people who signed up are all your class, chances are you won't be joining. Whereas if we're desperately short of a minstrel/lm/etc and one happens to sign up as the 50th person on the list, they'd get in out of necessity.

Only other time we've done things differently was after we'd beaten the balrog just the once or twice and wanted to keep the core group while introducing one or two new people each week ie so we'd keep beating him but get more people up to speed on the tactics.

[Rufus]

I'd be interested and can come with Rufus (LM), Brinion (HNT) or Maedlin (MIN). I'm hoping to have Ardoin's 6th piece by then as well if you need a GRD.

Ruf

[Raedwulf]

Errrrmmmm... I wouldn't agree with that, Tari. First come, first served is the default rule if the Raid Leader can't be bothered to think of any other terms, or doesn't have a reason to choose differently. I never used it! ;) The only rule that matters is that it's the Raid Leader's choice.

[bothorn]

For me personally its first come first served as within reason. Reason being as tari said group balance, ofcourse we dont want 4 guardians or 3 loremasters ect, if you names on the list as a reserve I typically list them in order of sign up as well so if for example I lost a champ and needed another I would try them in order first.

[Legadin]

Ah. Clarification: If two of the same coin come out, coin nominations are discarded and anyone that is eligible to roll (e.g. hasn't already had that coin, hasn't already won a 1st Age that run, etc) may do so. We do however need to have nominations made in advance of any rolling for reasons which should be obvious, and that means before the raid starts, since the Raid Leader is not going to want the headache of trying to sort it out after victory!

Sorry, I thought this had already been stated! ;)
Glad we cleared this out. Thank you. Was just making sure. Anyway my prefernce is for the Helm first then :).

[mababa]

dont agree with any bonus rolls for watcher , 12 people turn up , all try there best , if you,s kill him , then you all roll fairly out of 100 , its wrong , to get bonus rolls and its definelty wrong to carry bonus rolls onto next raid , sry rhy , just my opinion

also think its important to point out that all the rru menbers are trusted good players , there is no ninjas or loot stealers and i believe there will be more than enough people to fill a raid for the watcher , untill such times as were recruiting pugs, i think loot rules for watcher should be as follows ,
rule one: if you dont have shoulders , you roll out of 100
rule two: if you dont have helm , you roll out of 100
rule three: if you havent got a 1st age weapon you roll out 100

simple as that , that way its fair , no one gets bonus rolls as it affects the people who only get the chance to raid once in a while , nothing worse . than getting the chance and being picked to go to a raid , only to be told someone has a better chance of rolling than you even though you spent the same amount of time on the given night

given that 2 shoulders might drop and a weapon , and a few people might have shoulders or have a weapon , why not give the people that cant roll on the armour or a weapon a bonus roll on a xp ruin , that way they get some value from the team effort and no one will feel robbed , sincerly mababa

[Tiermond]

This loot business is all getting too complicated. The randomness of watcher loot is intrinsically unfair since what you want may not drop whereas other people may have 3 or more chances at something they want particularly if any nice teals are in the loot.
It seems fairest to have just one roll out of 100 and let everyone choose one item in the order of that rolls. The only restrictions should be for coins if you can use, and first age items should go to anyone with that class first and nominated alts second with the roll being used to decide if more than one of that class.
Never going to please everyone and whatever rules you have, dependant on what drops will favour one person or another in some way.

I agree with Mababa on bonus rolls, although if we start doing 2 raids a week and having to get PUG's in to make up numbers that view may need revising.

[Silirien]

Loot rules will be announced by The Council of Raid Leaders later.
Hopefully before the raid >.>
So please don't discuss them in this - sign up- thread.

[Rhyaehar]

Oooh, we have a name now?

[Runyawen]

That's just generally a fancy name for a rabble, right? :p

[Silirien]

Oooh, we have a name now?It's just to hide the True Evil Mastermind behind it all...

[Raedwulf]

That's just generally a fancy name for a rabble, right? :p

No. It's a fancy name for the rabble ROUSERS. We're the silly buggers that get the job of leading, not the milling sheep behind... :P

[Derigar/Tarinas]

No. It's a fancy name for the rabble ROUSERS. We're the silly buggers that get the job of leading, not the milling sheep behind... :P

As opposed to people like me who just grab the popcorn and watch the chaos from the sideline :)

[Abarax]

And lo he said 'without the sheep, shepherds are nothing...'

p.s: I'll pass this time :)

[Raedwulf]

Cows low, sheep go "baaa". :P

(And anyway, they're not nothing, just unemployed & probably the happier for it! ;))

[Abarax]

For once I didn't typo :P

[Raedwulf]

I know, but the pun was available & rather apposite. ;)

Incidentally, the question of improved rolls is still under discussion. However, I would like to point out that what we are actually discussing is not a Rift-style bonus system, which I agree wouldn't work because of the structure of this so-called "Raid" & the vagaries of the loot. Rhy has a +20 roll because he deliberately passed on the coin rolls (before any rolling took place) in exchange for a small improvement in his future chance. Everyone else at the time benefitted by having one less person to compete against, so it was perfectly fair all round. So this is tactical rolling, rather than bonus rolls.

Anyway, this remains a Raid Leaders' discussion, but I thought I'd better clarify...

[Abarax]

Sounds over complicated in IMHO.

[Grammur]

Apologies for not updating the info on desired item. It's shoulders for me this time (Grammur)

[Kunigunde]

ähm yep overlooked it all.--- helm for me- Kuni

[bothorn]

Well didnt go so well but as i said on TS the fight is very different now its always gonna cause complications, aside all that we did well enough just have to work on it, hopefully next time we can get a hopebuff so keep your eyes open and if you can get a lock it would be much appreciated, thanks again for coming along and learning a bit about the new "improved" watcher.

[Legadin]

Well didnt go so well but as i said on TS the fight is very different now its always gonna cause complications, aside all that we did well enough just have to work on it, hopefully next time we can get a hopebuff so keep your eyes open and if you can get a lock it would be much appreciated, thanks again for coming along and learning a bit about the new "improved" watcher.
Thank Bothorn for the leadership, It was a good attempt from all of us. A new tactic can always be tough. Hopefully we can bring him down next time.

[Notiane]

About the hope buff, anyone feels like setting up a chainlink run?Hmm, scratch that, this will get lost, I'll open another thread