Raedwulf
23 Oct 2010, 00:01
Regarding the Lt Lock Wednesday 20/10/10 run (http://www.raidsrus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2499) - this is not eligible for the +10 per night bonus. Just so we're absolutely clear about this...
We used to have a problem with leechers in The Rift (which was a 3-day raid for most of the time that L50 was the cap) who would only sign up for the Balrog. We had the rest of the place pretty much on farm, with only the Thrang fight giving occasional trouble. There were a number of people, though, who weren't interested in doing the spadework of clearing the way to Clarence; they just wanted to sign up for the Sunday to have a chance at downing him and, latterly when we were also regularly killing him, a chance at the bits of loot they hadn't got.
I'm happy to allow +10 per night if the Raid Leader wishes, but once you've had one go at the Lt, any further nights within the lock week i.e. continuation runs, are not eligible. You are either 1) getting a free go at the Lt (potentially without having helped clear), so the excitement of trying to kill him first time is your reward; or 2) we're farming him & a chance at winning the most difficult to acquire +30 armour is what you get out of it. Either way, you can't pick & choose who gets the bonus - give it to those who helped clear, but not those who are only on the continuation - because that's divisive.
We've had problems before, it's where we could have a problem again. I consider the incentive of tackling him; the hardest fight in the game now, the one fight we haven't conquered; to be sufficient reward. If Dirk is downed on Day 1, you fail the Twins on Days 1 & 2, and want to go back for Day 3 to try to get it right, then if RL's Discretion is invoked to award a 3rd +10, I won't quibble about it (but it's not the rule either).
Not on a continuation run (which means, essentially, having an extra go at the Lt.). I know you'll be staring at the screen slightly puzzled at my attitude about this, and I can't find the right way to explain it, but this is the status quo at the moment, and I think we should keep it that way. I don't accept the notion either that it's confusing (just tell people at the start there's no bonus today), or that it leads to more book-keeping (updating the list a third time surely does that?), both of which arguments have been advanced.
BG is, basically, a 2 day raid at +10 per day. If it was a 3 day raid, as the Rift originally was, I wouldn't have an issue. But it isn't. Awarding +30, +40, +whatever per week is just going to mean a lot of people capping out. It might sound odd, given why we put these rules in in the first place all that time ago, but I don't like the way that penalises those that haven't or simply can't raid as often as those of us that... sign up cos we've nothing better to do? ;) If we're going to award bonus for more than the "limit" on a raid, we need to fiddle with the loot rules, I think.
The matter is still under discussion within the Trustees. Until it's resolved, the status quo remains. I'll also happily admit that, just for once, I am playing tyrant. Hirion flatly disagrees with me. Other opinions are either equivocal; or favouring Hirion, but behind where the argument has got to.
Hirion has said (I'm sure he won't mind me quoting), "I don't even see how only coming on a certain lock is leeching on the roll numbers." My response was, "It's leeching on other people's effort. It did happen, it will happen again, and I don't wish to encourage it or reward it." He wasn't here at the time, I was; we have a different perspective on the matter.
Finally, this post is here for your information; it is not an invitation to democracy, to debate the point. This is strictly a matter for the Trustees. I post this because I have bitter experience of what tyranny & Chinese Whispers can do to small groups. It is not "RSVP your opinion"; it's here because I've put a lot of effort into getting RRU to where it is; open, friendly, skilled, successful, and very active, and I won't have any silly sod mucking that up.
Particularly me! :+
This has been a Public Information Service announcement, etc... ;)
We used to have a problem with leechers in The Rift (which was a 3-day raid for most of the time that L50 was the cap) who would only sign up for the Balrog. We had the rest of the place pretty much on farm, with only the Thrang fight giving occasional trouble. There were a number of people, though, who weren't interested in doing the spadework of clearing the way to Clarence; they just wanted to sign up for the Sunday to have a chance at downing him and, latterly when we were also regularly killing him, a chance at the bits of loot they hadn't got.
I'm happy to allow +10 per night if the Raid Leader wishes, but once you've had one go at the Lt, any further nights within the lock week i.e. continuation runs, are not eligible. You are either 1) getting a free go at the Lt (potentially without having helped clear), so the excitement of trying to kill him first time is your reward; or 2) we're farming him & a chance at winning the most difficult to acquire +30 armour is what you get out of it. Either way, you can't pick & choose who gets the bonus - give it to those who helped clear, but not those who are only on the continuation - because that's divisive.
We've had problems before, it's where we could have a problem again. I consider the incentive of tackling him; the hardest fight in the game now, the one fight we haven't conquered; to be sufficient reward. If Dirk is downed on Day 1, you fail the Twins on Days 1 & 2, and want to go back for Day 3 to try to get it right, then if RL's Discretion is invoked to award a 3rd +10, I won't quibble about it (but it's not the rule either).
Not on a continuation run (which means, essentially, having an extra go at the Lt.). I know you'll be staring at the screen slightly puzzled at my attitude about this, and I can't find the right way to explain it, but this is the status quo at the moment, and I think we should keep it that way. I don't accept the notion either that it's confusing (just tell people at the start there's no bonus today), or that it leads to more book-keeping (updating the list a third time surely does that?), both of which arguments have been advanced.
BG is, basically, a 2 day raid at +10 per day. If it was a 3 day raid, as the Rift originally was, I wouldn't have an issue. But it isn't. Awarding +30, +40, +whatever per week is just going to mean a lot of people capping out. It might sound odd, given why we put these rules in in the first place all that time ago, but I don't like the way that penalises those that haven't or simply can't raid as often as those of us that... sign up cos we've nothing better to do? ;) If we're going to award bonus for more than the "limit" on a raid, we need to fiddle with the loot rules, I think.
The matter is still under discussion within the Trustees. Until it's resolved, the status quo remains. I'll also happily admit that, just for once, I am playing tyrant. Hirion flatly disagrees with me. Other opinions are either equivocal; or favouring Hirion, but behind where the argument has got to.
Hirion has said (I'm sure he won't mind me quoting), "I don't even see how only coming on a certain lock is leeching on the roll numbers." My response was, "It's leeching on other people's effort. It did happen, it will happen again, and I don't wish to encourage it or reward it." He wasn't here at the time, I was; we have a different perspective on the matter.
Finally, this post is here for your information; it is not an invitation to democracy, to debate the point. This is strictly a matter for the Trustees. I post this because I have bitter experience of what tyranny & Chinese Whispers can do to small groups. It is not "RSVP your opinion"; it's here because I've put a lot of effort into getting RRU to where it is; open, friendly, skilled, successful, and very active, and I won't have any silly sod mucking that up.
Particularly me! :+
This has been a Public Information Service announcement, etc... ;)