Discussion: Into Delvings Dark

[Rhyaehar]

A new article has been published on the Raids'R'Us website, titled "Into Delvings Dark". It is writted by Anaeth (http://www.raidsrus.com/members/39/anaeth.html).

I've yet to set up my trusty robot to do these announcements for me, so I'll have to do some typing now. And since I am typing, I might as well give it the introduction it deserves.

This article is a detailed walk-through of Dark Delvings, arguably the most difficult instance currently in the game. The guide is a joint effort of a group of Raids'R'Us individuals, who have fought their way through the darkness time and time again. Their tireless efforts have ultimately resulted in the highest achievable result; completing the instance, without outside sources.

Compliments to all who participated in this group; you have really proven yourselves to be great additions to Raids'R'Us.

Now, without further compliments (it hurts me), I give you: Into Delvings Dark (http://www.raidsrus.com/articles/2/into-delvings-dark.html)

[Grimbos]

<solved>

Great work all, I'm looking forward to see if I can get my kinnies through the instance unscathed :)

[Rhyaehar]

Yup, I need to add a link to the menu

[Hirion]

Splendid work Anaeth - a lot of useful information yet presented in a really good way making it very accessible too. Great to see that our efforts, through your perfect guide, will now hopefully benefit other members of RRU.

Rhyaehar, a small note. Though been damn proud of the results we finally reaped in Dark Delvings, the strategy for Guervand specifically has been inspired by an 'outside source' - a video that Tinublin unearthed (can be found in the original DD thread). However, we have made that fight our own and the guide certainly is too - as are our experiences on the rest of the instances built from having done it again and again.

[Gorli]

One thing I didnt find clear. Is it every time you do a challenge/fry the edge as GRD on Gurvand he gets the bleading ears, or is it when a captain/champ shout at one of the adds he get the buff? I always thought it was random.

[Raedwulf]

That may be down to my editing. The way I read what Anaeth had originally drafted was that no-one can use shouts. He'll have to confirm what he thinks is the case.

[Eiyja]

I (we) think that using challenge and block responsive shouts triggers the bleeding ears to occur faster and more frequently. There is no real proof that this is so and it has been debated by many for a long time whether it infact is so or not.

The only time I use anything "shoutish" when I tank this fight is immediatelly after Gurvand is done with his welcome-speech and when he turns hostile. Then I use fray the edge to quickly get him to come to me.

The good news is that a guardian does not have to use any shouts in this fight. They are simply not needed, good old fashioned shieldbashing is enough to do the job. Those who feel uncertain can also equip challenge the darkness for those "when the shit hits the fan" moments, but it shouldnt be needed. Just beware as when Gurvand is done with his initial speech and turns hostile he sets off for a random partymember in a tremendeous speed and since your runspeed is very slow in the darkness you need to make sure to be able to hit him with a good agro-attack before he is out of your reach. For me it has always been enough with a fray the edge to get him to come to me, followed by engage to quickly get my agro treshold above the healing agro already created by MNS.

[Anaeth]

As Eiyja says, I don't think any of us can show that offensive screams effect the timeframe of bleeding ears buff or not. One thing I am absolutely sure about regarding the screams, is that if you use a offensive scream, you will get the a nasty bleeding ear attack upon you that seems to exceed what the buff says. I got a 2.5 hit when I made a misstake in one of our early runs and used captain's battleshout towards a howling overseer. I have tried the war-cry now and it doesn't seem to get the same effect, probably since war-cry affects allies instead and hence doesn't count as offensive. Though I want to try it more to be totaly certain.

I also agree to Eiyja that screams are not needed there. If the tank is allowed to bash him around a bit and the rythm of the match comes in place, the offensive screams are not needed.

But if you have the opportunity to try out other offensive screams (either planned or by misstake) and more connections, please write them here.

[Anaeth]

Yes, agree totally with Hirion. Not without outside sources. We have had numerous inputs from the forum which we don't know the origin from. We have seen numerous movies from differnt times to get new approaches. Then we have talked before we went in which approaches we were about to try out based on our previous attempts mixed with new possible pieces. I also think the breakthrough came when we got the insperation from the last source - let him simply kick us around! However, as Hirion says, the result of all the work and hence the guide is indeed our own. Darn fun to write too so it was well worth the 40-50 hours :)

[Hirion]

As for guardians I have been wondering if starting in overpower, doing a forced opening to get something going Guervand will notice, then pop to other stance and use pledge to increase the odds for a block event also for more threat, would be worthwhile?

And I dread to ask, my warden being closer to end content than my guardian... whether a warden's fist gambit builder is counted as an offensive cry here? THAT would be beyond the pale really.

[Gorli]

I have been doing this with Gorli most but i cant recall or seen that I get hit extra while doing challenge at gurvand and ocasionally challenges at overseers ( if they start hitting minstrel I will get aggro of them if the others are a bit away). Could be blocking them but I have to get in and check that.

[Eiyja]

overpower generates more agro from dps that is true.

but I would not use it myself simply because OP disables your block.. so you increase your incoming damage and you dont get the block responses you need to have to build up agro in the long run (block response attacks being a guardians best solid agro-generator..or atleast I think it should be)

if it is tricky to get his attention immediatelly I would rather suggest to start out close to Gurv and go straight to challenge the darkness or (if you dont have Challenge the Darkness, then) engage. Engage is a magnificient attack as it will make sure you become number one on the enemys hate-list, no matter how many or by how much the others in your fellowship/raid was ahead in terms of threat. So if your agro was "five" and your champions agro was "two millions" and your ministrel was "one million" then your engage would raise your agro to "two millions and one" and put you just above that champion. basically.

I just prefere to use fray the edge immediately because I can do fray the edge from range, thus placing myself closer to the spot I need to be rather than having to walk backwards leading Gurvand to the correct spot and worrying that he might use his knockback before we reach the spot. After that I use engage as soon as he reaches me.

Thats why engage is also very important if the tank dies and is ressed. One engage puts the Guardian right back on top in threat. By only force taunting and if lacking the base threat (since it was wiped when you died) the foe would otherwise just turn back to the dps or the healer when the timer of the forced taunt has expired.

Guardians pledge as Hirion mentioned is very good to use. I would use it right after engage to get many blocks right away to make sure that I also stay on top of Gurvands threat-list.

[Hirion]

I wouldnt stay in overpower - and only wanted to start in it to have Forced Opening available, to get a parry event (a block if traited with Blocking Force and critting), to start the reactive skills up. That would only leave the guardian in overpower for a few seconds at most.

[Eiyja]

good point I didnt think about the traited block event from force opening

still if he runs away from you when you use force opening its a lot of time wasted having to chase him back with that runspeed decrease (Force opening =maybe 600 damage with twohander.. less if keep 1h+shield.. it might or might not be enough to top the healing agro that has been happening). remember, if gurvand does not pay attention to you you dont get to hit him twice, only once and then he is way out of range.

perhaps fray the edge+engage or challenge the darkness and then after that force opening? its an interesting idea I think.